Hader Bars for Denture

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Tonkster

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I have never made a hader bar and am interested in making them for my education and future availability to my clients. Are there courses for this or something i just need to dive into?

Thanks!!
 
AJEL

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Every Rhein course I took has had some hader style bar in it. You could check with Chris at Preat I think he keeps a list of stuff going on. R U looking to do it in combination with implants or just post & core?
 
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Cadcam bars are the way to go. Very accurate and best of all no cutting and soldering after casting. The only issues I have had is getting the doc's to understand the importance of a verification jig try-in and starting with the denture try-in and designing the bar to fit the denture instead of starting with a bar and making denture fit around the bar. Getting there but still have some that make us start with the bar just stuck in their ways i guess.
 
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im not sure yet . i dont know what all the work will be involved. thanks for the feedback!!
 
denturist-student

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Is there any specific reason you would choose a hader bar over a simpler clip type of attachment such as a locator?
 
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no specific reason. had a dr ask about them. plus it's on my learn how to list.
 
droberts

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I have never made a hader bar and am interested in making them for my education and future availability to my clients. Are there courses for this or something i just need to dive into?

Thanks!!

Another method of fabricating a Hader bar can be done with Laser welding. Preformed Ti bar can easily be welded to Ti bar post.
 
denturist-student

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I would never just dive into implants without a lot of coursework and extra education...and a lot of practice casework to go along with it.
 
AJEL

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denturist-student; that might e the ideal way to do it. But reality sometimes catches you in the school of hard knocks. Many of the attachments I learned I learned at the bench with a RX in front of me and very little information from a mfg. (usually process a normal manner being the instructions.) My first hader bar & dolder bars were learned that way in earlier times. My first Zest anchor, Ceka, ASC52, even the Dawson's were all like that. Now there is more information but many of us had to learn to use these even before the instructions came out. I believe the first attachment I learned the nice way was Ney Sternlatch, & Branamarks.

Droberts, I went to the clinics on those how sturdy do they feel? My Laserstar is back, is it a kit you need to order & will those work on a lifecore?
 
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denturist-student

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Ajel you mentioned elsewhere that you had done some work with Riehn 83 attachments....How do you feel about their robustness. I am not certain if they are even putting on a hands on course now but they have alot of youtube videos. Do you do your own castings? Would you use normal vitalium or a wironit for casting?
 
droberts

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denturist-student; that might e the ideal way to do it. But reality sometimes catches you in the school of hard knocks. Many of the attachments I learned I learned at the bench with a RX in front of me and very little information from a mfg. (usually process a normal manner being the instructions.) My first hader bar & dolder bars were learned that way in earlier times. My first Zest anchor, Ceka, ASC52, even the Dawson's were all like that. Now there is more information but many of us had to learn to use these even before the instructions came out. I believe the first attachment I learned the nice way was Ney Sternlatch, & Branamarks.

Droberts, I went to the clinics on those how sturdy do they feel? My Laserstar is back, is it a kit you need to order & will those work on a lifecore?

AJEL, You can buy the Ti Hader bar stock from BTI. They also have what we call a "Dog Bone". Its a round bar stock that allows one Hader rider to be used. Mainly used
it on Max. arch cases with VDO issues. As for strength, they are very strong and durable compared to gold$. Ti bar post can be purchased from Titan or sometimes the manufacture.
So far, there has not been a case yet that I was going to laser assemble a bar that I could not find all the componets to make it work. Not going to say all bars need to be assembled
by laser welding, I also do a fair amount of CadCam as well. Its nice to have options...
 
AJEL

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dental-student I don't cast in my lab, I have Bertram in WI do my frameworks, that is all they do and do a great job. they have done Rhein 83 housings where the nylan fits just great, I have also had them make frameworks where the attachment is processed in acrylic, sometimes chairside if I'm not solid on the DDS impression. The Rhein clips are ok, I use more Spherioflex though.
Droberts thanks for that information; I only wish I had cad cam availiable; but I do have my old LaserStar back from the shop & welding TI is ok I actually have a case that I will look into the BTI stock it is a max and VDI is short. Can the Dog bone be placed in contack with what ridge is left?
 
droberts

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dental-student I don't cast in my lab, I have Bertram in WI do my frameworks, that is all they do and do a great job. they have done Rhein 83 housings where the nylan fits just great, I have also had them make frameworks where the attachment is processed in acrylic, sometimes chairside if I'm not solid on the DDS impression. The Rhein clips are ok, I use more Spherioflex though.
Droberts thanks for that information; I only wish I had cad cam availiable; but I do have my old LaserStar back from the shop & welding TI is ok I actually have a case that I will look into the BTI stock it is a max and VDI is short. Can the Dog bone be placed in contack with what ridge is left?

I would not place the Dog Bone directly on the tissue. Maybe .5mm off. The nice thing about using it. They dont have to be perfectly parallel.
What you have to parallel up is the riders and housing during processing. Also round for easy cleaning with floss for the patient. Here is a photo of a case that was done years ago.
These are farther off the tissue, but due to the implant abutment being a concial design and the ridge, this design seem to work best.
IMG_3567.JPG
IMG_3567.JPG
 
AJEL

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Nice work that looks like a system I saw at last years LMT with collars and tubes. I'll go thru my notes latter tonight I need to study for a FEMA NIMS test tonight.
 
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Is there any specific reason you would choose a hader bar over a simpler clip type of attachment such as a locator?

This is a great question, as both studs and bars have advantages and disadvantages.

Very simply, a bar will provide more prosthesis stability (ideal when residual ridge is flat) and splinting of abutments (to protect a week root or implant which is why you see them more in the maxillae). It is also ideal when there are non-parallel abutments. However, a bar requires more patient dexterity, better patient hygiene, requires more space, you can not engage undercuts, and depending on the design of the bar, it could compromise tongue space. A bar is usually more expensive. I agree that it is more effective to utilize digital CAD-CAM technology or laser technology with skills like Danny's.

A stud (like a Locator or ball) allows for independent servicing, less patient hygiene, and is more cost effective.

AJ, Rhein does not have Hader bar attachments. They have other excellent options, such as a square bar and rider, unlike the cylindrical Hader bar. I only bring this up so that you don't try and service a Rhein "hader-style" bar with Hader attachments.

I also wanted to say that we know have a brand new Hader Alignment Housing that is available and is compatible with both our Hader and Attachment International's EDS-Hader system.
 
AJEL

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Chris B He asked about classes, the theory in both are similar, the actual parts are different. Do you have a list of classes at the office?
I like the look of thicker knurled Hader alignment housings, the thinner wern't working out so well for me.
 
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lcmlabforum

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I would keep all the bar patterns parallel to path of insertion or the clips
will either wear out faster or harder for patient to insert. Most have jig
or device to line up the patterns.
Just my 2 cents worth,
LCM
 

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