Densply partial denture framework/ Chinese framework?

[Smilestyler]

Dear DLN,
So I went to a Con Ed course last fall and through conversation with the speaker, he convinced me to sent him a few partial cases for his lab to make the frameworks for me. In the communication in making this case he tells me it will take 14 business days. Wow. Thats 4 days longer than a worst case scenario from my regular lab. Okay, I though maybe he is just being careful and wants it to be perfect. I like that!! I send him a complicated case, and I ask him to set some teeth in it for try in so as to not delay the case any further than it already is (because of him) I give him the mold and shade and he says 'no can do'. It turns out he is a 'Densply Lab' and cannot use Vita teeth (or any other for that matter) So a hug red flag is going off now. He phones me yesterday and informs me that the frame came back all wrong. "What do you mean; '...came back...', arent you the one making it?" I ask.
Apparently he as a Densply lab has outsourced this to another Densply lab in China, and they misread his instructions and screwed the case up. I may end up paying for 2 frames unless he eats the cost of the first one.

So I ask;
1. has this ever happened to someone else?
2. with the controversy about Chinese lab work, can he do this without telling me?
3. are Chinese Densply labs more competent than other Chinese labs?
4. what are my options, other than starting over with new impressions to a completely different lab? Is he liable for the work that he outsourced?

 

[rkm rdt]

I know in Ontario we can only outsource to a lab that is supervised by another RDT.I think Calgary and BC are similar but not sure of Sask.
It's not like in the States where cousin Merle knows a guy that can get you a frame and he'll throw in handgun to get r dun!

 

[droberts]

Dear DLN,
So I went to a Con Ed course last fall and through conversation with the speaker, he convinced me to sent him a few partial cases for his lab to make the frameworks for me. In the communication in making this case he tells me it will take 14 business days. Wow. Thats 4 days longer than a worst case scenario from my regular lab. Okay, I though maybe he is just being careful and wants it to be perfect. I like that!! I send him a complicated case, and I ask him to set some teeth in it for try in so as to not delay the case any further than it already is (because of him) I give him the mold and shade and he says 'no can do'. It turns out he is a 'Densply Lab' and cannot use Vita teeth (or any other for that matter) So a hug red flag is going off now. He phones me yesterday and informs me that the frame came back all wrong. "What do you mean; '...came back...', arent you the one making it?" I ask.
Apparently he as a Densply lab has outsourced this to another Densply lab in China, and they misread his instructions and screwed the case up. I may end up paying for 2 frames unless he eats the cost of the first one.

So I ask;
1. has this ever happened to someone else?
2. with the controversy about Chinese lab work, can he do this without telling me?
3. are Chinese Densply labs more competent than other Chinese labs?
4. what are my options, other than starting over with new impressions to a completely different lab? Is he liable for the work that he outsourced?

5. Start over with new impressions, forget what happened and move on.

"And no I dont have a cousin Merle, that can throw in a handgun to get r dun". Thats funny right there, rmk rdt

 

[Tom Moore]

Is there anyone in Canada this time of the year that's not to poor to leave? I thought most of you were here playing winter Texan or Arizona boon-docker.

The Texas dentist can legally only send to a registered state lab and the chain of Texas register labs can't be broken even if it goes to a lab on the moon of even Canada.

I've been doing this 10 years and have never hid where the work is going.

We have more than one CDT in our lab in China and if I'm correct that is reciprocated for the RDT in many Canadian provinces.

If you put 10 cases in the box and send direct to China and it should only be 7 or 8 days door to door.

 

[Smilestyler]

Well I thank you for the quick reply(s). I think I like option 5 the best right now too.

 

[MasterCeramist]

Dentsply has a large lab in china called prident I believe. If he is outsourcing to them I can see why they only use dentsply teeth. I don't see why you would be on the hook for 2 frames, it is on him that the first one did not match the Rx. Other than starting over I guess just wait for the frame to come back and have another lab finish the case.
Just curious, what was the reason you decided to give him a try? Slick salesman, seemed like a good guy or did you just want to see how your current lab stacked up to what else is out there?

 

[rkm rdt]

"Is there anyone in Canada this time of the year that's not to poor to leave? I thought most of you were here playing winter Texan or Arizona boon-docker."

Someone has to stay home and feed the huskies!

 

[Smilestyler]

Just curious, what was the reason you decided to give him a try? Slick salesman, seemed like a good guy or did you just want to see how your current lab stacked up to what else is out there?

Couple of reasons. I like my regular guy, he is really good, but his prices are really high, and he gave another major increase for Jan 1,2013. For example; A complicated case in the past has come with a bill in excess of $400. This other guy seemed great, he is a denturist also and commented how good quality is hard to find so he opened up his own lab to do his frames 'in house'. (irony) I wondered if I was paying too much so I guess I was seeing how my regular guy stacked up. Maybe this is a good lesson?

 

[ceram1]

Couple of reasons. I like my regular guy, he is really good, but his prices are really high, and he gave another major increase for Jan 1,2013. For example; A complicated case in the past has come with a bill in excess of $400. This other guy seemed great, he is a denturist also and commented how good quality is hard to find so he opened up his own lab to do his frames 'in house'. (irony) I wondered if I was paying too much so I guess I was seeing how my regular guy stacked up. Maybe this is a good lesson?

There are a lot of fantastic domestic labs in the affordable range, but if you are talking attachments and such a tech that does these truly accurately is worth some bucks. Small pool imho.

 

[droberts]

Couple of reasons. I like my regular guy, he is really good, but his prices are really high, and he gave another major increase for Jan 1,2013. For example; A complicated case in the past has come with a bill in excess of $400. This other guy seemed great, he is a denturist also and commented how good quality is hard to find so he opened up his own lab to do his frames 'in house'. (irony) I wondered if I was paying too much so I guess I was seeing how my regular guy stacked up. Maybe this is a good lesson?

Sometimes it is worth paying more knowing what you are getting, instead of gambling. If that is what your "regular guy" is charging you for a complicated case, might want to keep him around.

 

[martintay]

Couple of reasons. I like my regular guy, he is really good, but his prices are really high, and he gave another major increase for Jan 1,2013. For example; A complicated case in the past has come with a bill in excess of $400. This other guy seemed great, he is a denturist also and commented how good quality is hard to find so he opened up his own lab to do his frames 'in house'. (irony) I wondered if I was paying too much so I guess I was seeing how my regular guy stacked up. Maybe this is a good lesson?

We all learn lessons . I think i would have sent a phantom case to judge first ! Would you have saved a lot if all had been ok ?

 

[Smilestyler]

I appreciate the opinions, and have learned my lesson. Thanks for all the input. I am glad I didnt burn any bridges with my regular lab in all this debacle.

 

[Tom Moore]

Most offshore labs will give you a case or two for free. Send them a case and send the same case to your regular lab. Then you have a reasonable comparison in quality, turn time and price.

 

[PCDL]

Yup, Prident is the Dentsply owned lab in China. They will only work with Dentsply customers, and they only use FDA certified products all provided by dentsply. Does that make it OK? Not sure. Does that make it better than the run of the mill Chinese lab, I would say yes. But its still a Chinese partial any way you slice it. I have seen their frames. Not bad, not great. They lack the finesse that a quality lab will provide you.

 

[user name]

You try to save money and got crap. Quality costs. I have heard that The Evil Empire is settitng up a big lab some where in canada. Any validation??