Amann Girrbach Motion 2 or 3 owners, any regrets?

[Contraluz]

Good morning y'all

I am in evaluation of a new mill. I am also looking at the Amann Girrbach mills. Is there anything I have to be aware of with the Amann Girrbach mills?

As always, thanks in advance and happy Friday

M

 

[ztech]

5 years in, no regrets with the mill. I have had a couple of sensors replaced but overall, very pleased with how robust it is and how well it mills. I do not recommend their scanner or their sintering furnace though.

 

[Car 54]

I'm not sure about those mills specifically, but my friend's Mikro 4x was repaired 2 times in the span of about 5 years. His Mikro 5x purchased shortly after was repaired about 1 time, and as I left that office I heard it was need of another repair. The support they received wasn't the best. Those mills were very quiet though, and didn't need the cfm volume of air like the PM3 on up, but I wasn't a fan of all the plastic compared to my 2 VHF mills.

Maybe the Motions are better, hopefully? I'm not trying to be pessimistic; just being honest about what I saw and heard. Again, hopefully, others have had a better experience, and maybe this was just something on his end (lack of proper maintenance or cleaning). The suction that came with that unit was a single filter bag.

edit: I would also check on their yearly maintenance plan/fee, which was fairly $$, at least for them 5 years ago. But that now seems to come with the territory as I paid up-front for the 2nd year "warrenty''/maintence, on my Dry mill.

Happy Friday to you, too

 

[Contraluz]

I'm not sure about those mills specifically, but my friend's Mikro 4x was repaired 2 times in the span of about 5 years. His Mikro 5x purchased shortly after was repaired about 1 time, and as I left that office I heard it was need of another repair. The support they received wasn't the best. Those mills were very quiet though, and didn't need the cfm volume of air like the PM3 on up, but I wasn't a fan of all the plastic compared to my 2 VHF mills.

Maybe the Motions are better, hopefully? I'm not trying to be pessimistic; just being honest about what I saw and heard. Again, hopefully, others have had a better experience, and maybe this was just something on his end (lack of proper maintenance or cleaning). The suction that came with that unit was a single filter bag.

edit: I would also check on their yearly maintenance plan/fee, which was fairly $$, at least for them 5 years ago. But that now seems to come with the territory as I paid up-front for the 2nd year "warrenty''/maintence, on my Dry mill.Thanks, Car!

Happy Friday to you, too

Thanks, Car! Any trouble with your Dry mill? Or in other words, have you had the need to 'activate' your warranty?

I do have my issues with these high cost maintenance/warranty plans. Especially in the first year. It basically implies that your mill needs a $3,500 repair every year. But I guess that is how they make money. It is like when you buy a new car. Sticker price is so much, but then they want to sell you all their maintenance plans and al a sudden you pay $100 plus a month, on top of your payments... (yes, I have been financing my cars no need to tell me I should buy the cash or so ) I usually decline these plans and haven't regretted it so far.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Thanks, Car! Any trouble with your Dry mill? Or in other words, have you had the need to 'activate' your warranty?

I do have my issues with these high cost maintenance/warranty plans. Especially in the first year. It basically implies that your mill needs a $3,500 repair every year. But I guess that is how they make money. It is like when you buy a new car. Sticker price is so much, but then they want to sell you all their maintenance plans and al a sudden you pay $100 plus a month, on top of your payments... (yes, I have been financing my cars no need to tell me I should buy the cash or so ) I usually decline these plans and haven't regretted it so far.

no doubt about that! IMHO the first 2-3yr should be a standard 100% warranty across the board for these things. anyone thats buying a $50k+ vehicle is getting a minimum of 5yr, or up to 10yr warranties. why we settle for a 1yr is baffling

 

[Car 54]

Thanks, Car! Any trouble with your Dry mill? Or in other words, have you had the need to 'activate' your warranty?

lol, no warranty activation, yet IMO it's a beast, a metal tank that keeps on milling. My rep sold one at about the same time to a guy down south of me who put, I believe it was, a Terminator decal on the side of his, for the same reason. Since you have the Mini, the Prorgamill CAM is more advanced than that version but is almost as easy to use, just 2-3 more clicks and ticks to nest. I do come up with an occasional issue of having to manually mark the margins, and a couple of times I just milled it in the Mini, as that never needed margin marking. It's just something I need to learn to use, as I have manually marked them before.

So that is the other thing in your research, is the CAM. The Mikro's I mentioned came with a branded AG version of Exocad which took a bit of time to run through the CAM as well as the calculations. They had to mark every margin, and when I showed him the Mini (at that time) and how the margins were marked automatically and the calculations only took about 5 seconds for a single molar, balked that there must be something wrong with the CAM. The calculations on the Programill take longer, probably due to the software and it being 5-axis.

When Ivoclar support set up the mill, he did point out that the monitor that is right next to the mill was rocking a bit, due to the mill. Is it vibration, nope, but a rocking at times in 2.5 cutting mode. Everything mills out nicely. Very happy I bought it, and have told my rep so about 2 times. The Dry mill doesn't have an ionizer when milling PMMA.

I think @TheLabGuy mentioned he may have preferred to have gotten another PM7 compared to the Dry mill, but that may be because of the 2 hours to mill an Ivotion denture compared to around an hour with the PM7?

And the 2nd year warranty option I went with, was at a discount, but I agree with you all, as if you believe in your product the first year or two should come with the mill, then the option to buy an extended warranty if wanted, and not overlapping warranties. But that is how they generate money on equipment sales, compared to consumables that generate greater profit.

 

[PRO ARTS DL]

We've had a Motion 2 for a few years already.

There's yearly fees to get support which are a bit high but definitely help when you need a repair.. We have had the same sensor replaced twice by now under the support warranty. They send someone to the lab to get it repaired so it may take some time to get something set up.

It is a great mill and AG has made it quite simple to use but the simplicity has it's drawbacks. Since it's a closed system and you don't have a way to modify strategies, you can only mill materials AG has a strategy for.

For example there are some PMMA discs the Motion 2 can't handle. So it's taken us a while to find the PMMA discs we can use, unfortunately none of them were on the cheaper side. You see a new material that others are milling? Out of luck since it can't be milled, you want to try milling dentures? wait until AG has the proper strategies and you most likely will have to stick to their workflow.

If you want something simple to use, then they are great mills.

If you are someone like me who always likes to try new materials, research, and push the envelope; then I wouldn't recommend it since you will be left feeling like you are limited and you wish you could do more (This has been my experience)

 

[Accutech]

Can’t speak for motion 2 or 3 but I have had my mikro 5X for three years now.
First year of ownership was great. Quiet, fast and accurate.
Second year, with about 250 hours of use (I’m a one man show) I had to have z axis stepper motor and encoder replaced. This was last summer.
Now at about 460 hours total (little over a year since repair) I’m having the same z axis stepper motor and encoder replaced again. I’m less than thrilled.
I’m not sure why the same component keeps breaking. Apparently no one else does either. It’s a simple small machine with minimal moving parts.
When I see their ads for the new matik with automatic disc changer, that makes me cringe. I get a migraine imagining all the moving parts which are potential failure points.
Needless to say I don’t recommend AG milling machines.
Once I receive my mill back from repair, I’ll be shopping around for a replacement from different manufacturer.
Thomas.

 

[mammasan]

I've had the motion two for about a year and a half. I think it's fantastic. Consistently gets good updates and the materials are pretty dialed in. I've used some third party materials that work well. Fortunately, AG's materials are top notch.