Al-Cote Problems

[actittle]

I'm having trouble getting my Al-Cote to stick to my models. Does anyone have any tips?

 

[JohnWilson]

Easiest thing is to just use a better product.

I like Ivoclars separator.

If you are talking about flasked dentures and the separator not adhering to the model it may be your boilout technique. Just soften the wax don't let it liquefy, we find 7 to 8 minutes in boiling water allows for the wax to get soft enough to just peel out with out pulling teeth from the other side of the flask.

When I use Ivoclars separator I boilout /wash out with dawn soap, I steam clean, then whiled the flask is hot I pour the separator on, completely over the entire surface of the teeth and model I slowly rinse with warm water and put a second coat on the same way and stand the flask on end.

When I do my packing or injecting after the separator makes a perfect sheet I take monomer and wipe the surface of the teeth down prior to the next step.

Works perfect for us

 

[DentureDude]

i really like al-cote. never had problems with it.

try experimenting with different cleaning solutions.. sounds like something is keeping the sep from sinking in. (like John said could be liquefied wax)
i use the al-cote at half strength. mixed 50/50 with distilled water. seems to get into the pores of the stone better when its thinner.

for cleaning .. wet steam.
let us know how it goes.

 

[AJEL]

I use dawn for my boil spray, but I shifted from al-cote (I was using 1/2 strength with distilled deionized water) to DVA "APS" APS Acrylic & Plaster SeparatorDental Ventures | Dental Ventures
Just for the heck of it has your DDS started using vasoline during tryin? that is harder to boil out and I would use Boric Acid to get that queakey clean. (20 Mule team) 20 Mule Team Borax - 100% natural laundry booster
I put 15ml in a liter bottle add 30ml Dawn hot water and that is my spray soap in the lab.
A little in the boil out cleans up wax pretty good when draining the boil out.

 

[lcmlabforum]

The other thing - always warm up your cast or apply the separator soon after boil out. Thinning it out
helps too but a warm cast is critical. We used to have a product called CMS from the UK - called
Cold Mold Seal - that may help but John is right - Ivoclar separator works great.
You really want to get into removable huh? Be careful what you ask for . . .
LCM

 

[PCDL]

Are your models not hot when you apply your separator?? The stone will best accept any separator when it is hot. Al-Cote works fine for me, but I use it for eclipse, not my traditional acrylic. For that you can get a generic that will work the same and save you some cash.

 

[Flipperlady]

If you don't completely rinse the wax off or if you leave the models in the boil out too long (soaks up wax0 then your sep won't stick as well as it should. Other than that, what was mentioned (paint sep while models are hot and I use the Ivocap sep it's the best.) Another thing, if you don't let sep dry a bit before packing then you'll also have problems. Don't let it pool up and make sure it's glossed over good.

 

[actittle]

What we have been doing so far is boiling them just long enough to soften the wax so it will peel out 6 - 7 minutes. Gently scrubbing with powdered Tide detergent. Rinsing with clean boiling water. Let the flasks cool just enough to be able to handle them without getting burned. A short blast of air to blow off any puddles of water, they are still very moist. Then apply the Al-cote with a brush. But it peels off very easily after everything cools to room temperature. We are using Whip-Mix Silky Rock for the models and the flasking stone, idk if that may be causing any problems or not but we just ordered a sample of Whip-Mix's Rapid Flask to try on the next one.

All that being said we are still getting a nice result after we polish the dentures but we have to be very careful not to accidentally peel the Al-cote off when we are packing.

 

[Hary]

The silky rock could be your problem. I have never used silky rock for denture models...
steps i use is
- boiled water
-steam clean
-brush clean under cold water until the flask is cold
-steam clean again and air dry and apply the 1st coat of separator
-mix the acrylic put the timer ( 4 minutes)
- apply the 2nd coat timer (6 minutes)
-pack.
-

 

[JohnWilson]

N

 

[PCDL]

What we have been doing so far is boiling them just long enough to soften the wax so it will peel out 6 - 7 minutes. Gently scrubbing with powdered Tide detergent. Rinsing with clean boiling water. Let the flasks cool just enough to be able to handle them without getting burned. A short blast of air to blow off any puddles of water, they are still very moist. Then apply the Al-cote with a brush. But it peels off very easily after everything cools to room temperature. We are using Whip-Mix Silky Rock for the models and the flasking stone, idk if that may be causing any problems or not but we just ordered a sample of Whip-Mix's Rapid Flask to try on the next one.

All that being said we are still getting a nice result after we polish the dentures but we have to be very careful not to accidentally peel the Al-cote off when we are packing.

wear gloves, they should be too hot to touch with the bare hand.... and boil them out to the point that there is no wax.... you shouldnt be peeling wax out... it should be gone after the boil out.... we never can touch a flask with a bare hand after boil out.

 

[budgenator]

After my dentures are flasked I place the flasks in a thermostatically controller water bath for 15 to 20 minutes at 125 degrees to soften the wax without melting it. Then I flush the halves of the flaskes with boiling water and automatic dish washer detergent , then immerse in the boiling solution for 5 minutes to heat soak and lift any waxes and oils off the gypsum. I then retrieve through boiling detergent water flush. If there is any doubt I scrub with a dilute dawn in a spray bottle and re-flush, final rinse is 190 degree tap water. I set the flasks on edge to dry and coat with separator.

 

[1959cutter]

I used al-cote for years before switching to Ivoclar separator.
the al-cote would dry and peel causing"patches" of rough finish on the tissue side,but the ivoclar seemed to be better for shiney finish.
Ivoclar will pool around the teeth,displacing acrylic and pruducing "marbling"in the finish around the area,so brush off excess with soft brush after painting and clean with monomer,the bottom of the teeth before packing.
good luck,every other answer seems inline with my experience.