3Shape 2015.5.0 and Trios feldspathic veneer scan issues.

[Sevan P]

So I have a Doc that just jumped on bored with Trios and is already going balls to the wall with this thing. Digital implants full arch upper cases a bunch of single and two unit cases and now he is getting into veneer scans. The Doc is a great Doc, beautiful preps and super PVS impression and he know what he is doing.

I got a recent scan from him for two veneers 8 and 9, i tried to mark the margins but had issues when it came to the proximal areas between the the teeth and to the adjacent teeth, any tips on getting by this cause he has a 18 units veneer case with implants and crown coming up. I told him I don't do veneers on 3shape cause it is a waste of time and a PITA. It also hinders work flow cause half the veneers preps suck and the software bugs out when trying to connect the margins.

Anyone else doing feldspathic veneers via a trios or IO scan on 3shape?

I will see if I can find the case and get the issues to re occur.

Thanks

Sevan

 

[CoolHandLuke]

pics!

 

[rkm rdt]

I think he posted this on the TSC.
He should be able to mark the margins from his end. I would print the veneers and press.

I suggested that the lab could make pmma temps to check for accuracy.

I had a doc jump in feet first as well and it didn't end well. You need to take control and let him know you will get there in time.

He wants this thing to pay for itself in the first month. This is all about communication.

Maybe he should break the contacts? I hate contacts that touch.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

just make one BIG veneer, add a pontic for the 2nd tooth.

 

[Sevan P]

Ok, so the file got deleted, anyway to re-download the file again? Via 3shape communicate website? Also the case was a e.Max veneer sorry not feldspathic.

 

[IVY]

Ok, so the file got deleted, anyway to re-download the file again? Via 3shape communicate website? Also the case was a e.Max veneer sorry not feldspathic.

He'll have to resend it from his end...can't pull it out of communicate.

 

[Sevan P]

He'll have to resend it from his end...can't pull it out of communicate.

Thought so, Thanks

 

[Sevan P]

Ok got the case imported in and here are some preview shots of the preps before I practice on the case again.



Is the style of prep going to be an issue when marking the margins, design then model builder?

 

[rkm rdt]

Probably,this style is a pain no matter what type of impression you get. Mark your margins and print some wax veneers .Dont bother with separate dies,I'd print a solid model.


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[Tayebdental]

This type of veneer prep/contacts is difficult in any situation. Separating the dies is difficult and time consuming, but if you are careful and using a very thin and true diamond disc you can separate the dies by cutting from the lingual. Good luck

 

[zero_zero]

These cases are still easier done by the analog route...

 

[CoolHandLuke]

nah, splint em, one big wrap-around margin and one pontic. little to no die spacer. have it printed. when devesting relieve the internal slightly. should be tight at midline.

if you insist on 2 separate units you just won't get it without setting the margin on the wrong side of the edge.

 

[Sevan P]

Probably,this style is a pain no matter what type of impression you get. Mark your margins and print some wax veneers .Dont bother with separate dies,I'd print a solid model.


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Well the Doc was expecting sectioned dies on the printed model. I was trying to get it to go, but couldn't get past the design part first cause it go all weird when trying to separate the dies. I think this is a clear feldspathic case and not an emax veneer case.

Just trying to see if this style of prep can be printed. I say no.

 

[rkm rdt]

just print separate dies and a solid model. This is what I tried to explain on the TSC.

The ditching feature will screw you up if you try to section them just like an inlay or onlay.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

just print separate dies and a solid model. This is what I tried to explain on the TSC.

The ditching feature will screw you up if you try to section them just like an inlay or onlay.

Using 3Shape 2015...

Model builder wont allow you to continue past die sectioning if the dies draw path are intersecting, which is the problem. You would have to create two separate orders and select every other tooth. Then run through model builder twice. Thats a huge pain. And then your still building analog restorations on a printed model. Thats not very accurate.

Digital Impressions are the same as unsectioned models. Without the separate die scans defining the prep you are forced to section the model before you select the margins. 3shape, by default, adds a very short extension to the spline you have selected to cut. And these splines intersect with the neighboring veneer prep. After your primary margin selection (Die Sectioning),you are left with the sectioned die to redefine your final margin. If your margins on your neighboring preps are too close, veneer preps for example, the neighbors will be missing scan data at the interproximal margin.

If you must, you may design these veneers as "Temporary on prepared model." But then you have no control of a cement gap, extra cement gap, drill compensation, margin offset. Non of these parameters exist when designing "Temporary on prepared model."

If anyone has a legitimate work around with desirable results, I'd love to give their technique a try.

 

[Pieter]

So I have a Doc that just jumped on bored with Trios and is already going balls to the wall with this thing. Digital implants full arch upper cases a bunch of single and two unit cases and now he is getting into veneer scans. The Doc is a great Doc, beautiful preps and super PVS impression and he know what he is doing.

I got a recent scan from him for two veneers 8 and 9, i tried to mark the margins but had issues when it came to the proximal areas between the the teeth and to the adjacent teeth, any tips on getting by this cause he has a 18 units veneer case with implants and crown coming up. I told him I don't do veneers on 3shape cause it is a waste of time and a PITA. It also hinders work flow cause half the veneers preps suck and the software bugs out when trying to connect the margins.

Anyone else doing feldspathic veneers via a trios or IO scan on 3shape?

I will see if I can find the case and get the issues to re occur.

Thanks

Sevan

Looking at the pics - its a prep issue also- He needs to disk in between the veneers to separate the margins. he is prepping too deep inter proximally.

 

[Sevan P]

Looking at the pics - its a prep issue also- He needs to disk in between the veneers to separate the margins. he is prepping too deep inter proximally.

This is what I told him. We just finished a 20 unit upper and lower veneer case that he scanned on his trios. Is was so gnarly that I had to upgrade my ram and video card just to be able to finish the case. That 20 unit case, he broke the contacts on all the units.

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[JohnWilson]

Its amazing hole large those big multi unit cases are. Like you noticed the more ram the better!

 

[Sevan P]

Its amazing hole large those big multi unit cases are. Like you noticed the more ram the better!

John

I went from 16gb to 32gb maxed out the HPZ230 MB limit, upgraded the GTX745 2GB to a GTX960 4GB. And still the case took up 99.5% of the RAM before the upgrade and after and nearly locked up the PC. It all goes south once all the margins get connected and you try to smooth and wax knife +. So I ended up having my Anterior guy finish cleaning it up. Thought RAM was leaking, so I did all the .net updates and still same issue. It was a Gnarly case!

But the case dropped right in no issues.

 

[Mike2]

Has there been a solution to create separate dies for veneer cases? I have been trying to mark in model creator but it has not worked. Thanks in advance.