Zimmer Encode 2023

[Car 54]

And that is the rub on my end, living in "Zimmerland" where 75-80% literally, of my implant cases are Zimmer. The Oral surgeons here place them (an occasional Nobel) and one of my main accounts switched from placing Biohorizons to Zimmer. The Zimmer rep lives in this small town, too So for me, I do at least need to see more of what it's about, to have more information to be able to tell my accounts what extra I may have to charge for the "ease" of use on their end in using the Encode workflow.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

And that is the rub on my end, living in "Zimmerland" where 75-80% literally, of my implant cases are Zimmer. The Oral surgeons here place them (an occasional Nobel) and one of my main accounts switched from placing Biohorizons to Zimmer. The Zimmer rep lives in this small town, too So for me, I do at least need to see more of what it's about, to have more information to be able to tell my accounts what extra I may have to charge for the "ease" of use on their end in using the Encode workflow.

In your situation, I might be able to see some reason to go down this road.

I live in Straumann land where the rep is able to go around and bash me to my doctors and tell them I am untrained because I offer different options than Strauman's less than ideal abutment solutions. Sorry, my job is to provide the best possible restorations to my doctors and their patients. I can't help it if Straumann doesn't have a an angled screw channel abutment. I can't help it if a stock variobase part from Straumann is the same price as an Atlantis custom abutment.

 

[a3dl]

In your situation, I might be able to see some reason to go down this road.

I live in Straumann land where the rep is able to go around and bash me to my doctors and tell them I am untrained because I offer different options than Strauman's less than ideal abutment solutions. Sorry, my job is to provide the best possible restorations to my doctors and their patients. I can't help it if Straumann doesn't have a an angled screw channel abutment. I can't help it if a stock variobase part from Straumann is the same price as an Atlantis custom abutment.

Straumann does have ASC. Its not ideal when the doc scans the scan body in wrong position bc you will have to print and rescan it facing the correct way.
Here where I live we see them all so we are not married to anything. Encode is frustrating and I discourage my accts from using it but hey it is what it is.

 

[TheLabGuy]

In your situation, I might be able to see some reason to go down this road.

I live in Straumann land where the rep is able to go around and bash me to my doctors and tell them I am untrained because I offer different options than Strauman's less than ideal abutment solutions. Sorry, my job is to provide the best possible restorations to my doctors and their patients. I can't help it if Straumann doesn't have a an angled screw channel abutment. I can't help it if a stock variobase part from Straumann is the same price as an Atlantis custom abutment.

I love how implant reps bash us. Seriously, I've really ever had only one that doesn't in my area. A Dentsply rep. (go firgure),actually a good guy/gal team. They undercut me with having the Docs send directly to Atlantis using the Primescan but they've always been honest with me about it and don't blow smoke up my underside like the rest of them. I respect the honesty more than anything...which the Zimmer guy was being dishonest. Who in there right mind would pay 249 per month just to have access to send you a scan, then charge me triple for sending it to you as well. I've heard of private memberships but there was no reach around in this scenario.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

Straumann does have ASC. Its not ideal when the doc scans the scan body in wrong position bc you will have to print and rescan it facing the correct way.
Here where I live we see them all so we are not married to anything. Encode is frustrating and I discourage my accts from using it but hey it is what it is.

Straumann's ASC solution is a ti base. For anteriors, a ti base is not an adequate solution. Especially one that sometimes doesn't even stick up above the crest of the tissue on many anterior cases because normally these implants are placed deeper than posteriors. On top of that, if I want to design a case using one of their ASC ti bases, I have to go in edit the Materials.XML file because the screw channel starts angling from the TOP of the ti base and not from the base as it should. My theory is that I have to do this because Straumann won't put in the time to make their products work seamlessly with 3Shape because they want us all to buy their design software. I mean, why would you want your products to work with the most popular design software in the world?

 

[Car 54]

@TheLabGuy I don't want to hi-jack your thread, but I just got back from taking a shade at a Zimmer Drs office. He mentioned he and his partner hate the Encode system and won't use it. He said Zimmer doesn't have scan flags? and that Tru abutment does (and Atlantis),and can 3Shape accept those, and work with them to do my models? He's using Sirona Primescan. Are you all getting printed models with the metal analogs, and from where?

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

@TheLabGuy I don't want to hi-jack your thread, but I just got back from taking a shade at a Zimmer Drs office. He mentioned he and his partner hate the Encode system and won't use it. He said Zimmer doesn't have scan flags? and that Tru abutment does (and Atlantis),and can 3Shape accept those, and work with them to do my models? He's using Sirona Primescan. Are you all getting printed models with the metal analogs, and from where?

Atlantis can fabricate models and abutments for Zimmer implants if they scan using an Atlantis or ELOS scan body.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Atlantis can fabricate models and abutments for Zimmer implants if they scan using an Atlantis or ELOS scan body.

He answered your question. Atlantis still runs $100+more than TruAbutment though. TruAbutment has all the Zimmer scanbodies as well. Yes, 3shape can do it. The implant libraries for TruAbutment are FDA cleared. We make our own implant models...the DIM (digital implant model) analogs we purchase directly from TruAbutment as well. Atlantis, we just have them do the model/abutment when we send a case to them.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

He answered your question. Atlantis still runs $100+more than TruAbutment though. TruAbutment has all the Zimmer scanbodies as well. Yes, 3shape can do it. The implant libraries for TruAbutment are FDA cleared. We make our own implant models...the DIM (digital implant model) analogs we purchase directly from TruAbutment as well. Atlantis, we just have them do the model/abutment when we send a case to them.

We make our own implant models since we have a printer. I have my doctors send back the implant models with the digitial analogs so I can retrieve them for future cases. If they don't send back models then they get charged $40 for the model

 

[Car 54]

He answered your question. Atlantis still runs $100+more than TruAbutment though. TruAbutment has all the Zimmer scanbodies as well. Yes, 3shape can do it. The implant libraries for TruAbutment are FDA cleared. We make our own implant models...the DIM (digital implant model) analogs we purchase directly from TruAbutment as well. Atlantis, we just have them do the model/abutment when we send a case to them.

Thank you, LabGuy, very informative I'll give TruAbutment a call.

 

[TheLabGuy]

We make our own implant models since we have a printer. I have my doctors send back the implant models with the digitial analogs so I can retrieve them for future cases. If they don't send back models then they get charged $40 for the model

You making your own implant models off the atantis/elos scans, then atlantis just make the abutment?

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

You making your own implant models off the atantis/elos scans, then atlantis just make the abutment?

Yeah. You set up the order like you normally would in 3shape to send to Atlantis except you add a model. First, send the order to Atlantis. Next you open the order to design. Follow the steps until you mesh in the scan body. After you hit next on that step, you will get an error. You close that error and hit next again. I think you get the same error again. close it and hit next. This time it should go to the next step where the scan body is gone and you just see the models. At this point, you can close down Dental Designer and then go to model builder. Everything else is just like designing a model. Atlantis tech support can walk you through if you have any trouble. Certain 3shape versions work better than others.

 

[Car 54]

For a lab like mine, 1 man, I'm not doing enough printed work (iTero milled models) to justify a printer, where would I get a printed model with a metal analog and soft tissue from? Atlantis can do that, i.e. one stop shopping. To save money, I could anodize the Atlantis abutments myself, instead of paying them for their gold hue, right?

I'm really starting to lose any interest in Zimmers Real Guide thing, as the monthly cost, and then having to get the model, analog and soft issue somewhere else, isn't starting to add up. I would rather tell the Dr to get the Zimmer scan flags for Atlantis and have them do it all.

 

[TheLabGuy]

For a lab like mine, 1 man, I'm not doing enough printed work (iTero milled models) to justify a printer, where would I get a printed model with a metal analog and soft tissue from? Atlantis can do that, i.e. one stop shopping. To save money, I could anodize the Atlantis abutments myself, instead of paying them for their gold hue, right?

Yes, we anonodize our own Atlantis abutments. As for implant models, not sure argen does them anymore, they used too.

 

[desertfox384]

Argen should be a one stop shop - they will do implant models with dim and soft tissue plus crown/ abutment

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

Yes, we anonodize our own Atlantis abutments. As for implant models, not sure argen does them anymore, they used too.

For a lab like mine, 1 man, I'm not doing enough printed work (iTero milled models) to justify a printer, where would I get a printed model with a metal analog and soft tissue from? Atlantis can do that, i.e. one stop shopping. To save money, I could anodize the Atlantis abutments myself, instead of paying them for their gold hue, right?

I'm really starting to lose any interest in Zimmers Real Guide thing, as the monthly cost, and then having to get the model, analog and soft issue somewhere else, isn't starting to add up. I would rather tell the Dr to get the Zimmer scan flags for Atlantis and have them do it all.

Annodizing all our abutments in house is something you should definitely pursue. Reactive Metals Solution is where I got mine several years ago. It will pay for itself in like 6 abutments. https://www.reactivemetals.com/anodizers-accessories It takes about one minute to annodize several abutments at a time.

 

[Car 54]

Annodizing all our abutments in house is something you should definitely pursue. Reactive Metals Solution is where I got mine several years ago. It will pay for itself in like 6 abutments. https://www.reactivemetals.com/anodizers-accessories It takes about one minute to annodize several abutments at a time.

Thank you and I agree with you, buddy, I'm one step ahead of you on that one as I went with Painful Pleasures..lol, what a name, a while back.

https://www.painfulpleasures.com/titanium-anodizing-kit-for-jewelry-dental-medical-supplies.html

 

[Car 54]

Argen should be a one stop shop - they will do implant models with dim and soft tissue plus crown/ abutment

Yes, you're right, talked to them a couple of times this afternoon. Thank you

So after doing more research and getting quotes, why is Zimmer making us pay to use their software, as shouldn't it be a lure, used as a lure, to attract us into using their OEM abutments and milling center? Argen and Atlantis are all too willing to help me, without charging me a monthly/yearly subscription fee and letting me buy abutments and models, al la carte.

I still will be doing the demo tomorrow of the Real Guide online software and portal, just to see.

 

[rkm rdt]

Car, you can always avoid the analog by printing the abutment head as part of the model. As for printers check out a high end Fdm printer on Amazon for about 1500$.
These things will do the job for models.

 

[Car 54]

Car, you can always avoid the analog by printing the abutment head as part of the model. As for printers check out a high end Fdm printer on Amazon for about 1500$.
These things will do the job for models.

I think that is eventually going to be my next step, as I'm kinda being pushed out of my analog comfort zone into more digital, especially when my account this morning asked me to accept I/O scans for implants...other than Encode that he and another account won't do.

At this point, Zimmer's helping me to see what so many of you all have been doing for years, buy the scan bodies for the Dr's and have them send me the file and I'll take it from there.