What is the industry standat of ceramic production?

[imp_l]

Hi everybody.
I am a dentist who owns a dental lab in Tel Aviv. I am new to this forum and from reading few posts, i found, there is agreat support from the group members.
can anyone support my asumption that 15 unit of ceramic per day is the industry standart?
Thanks
Ami

 

[doug]

can you define what you expect for 15 units? is that Build only, Build & Contour, opaque, Bulld a & contour? does that include Stain and Glaze?

 

[imp_l]

Thank you doug for your quick reply, I mean from the coping to the finished ceramic prosthesis.

 

[charles007]

Doctor,

Having mostly worked in inhouse labs the majority of my career, I can't give any exact numbers. I can say that 15 units per day can be done, but I would not define it as quality work at all...... There are many techs that can stack 25 to 30 units per day that are already opaqued. Also many that can grind in-contour 10 to 30 units per day that are already stacked and fired.
Many higher end labs make less than 5 units per day. So, to get a better handle on your number of 15 units per day, I would like you to define quality, and the kind of lab your talking about.
I can tell you that you would not want one of those 15 units in your mouth for sure.

Edit: No, I know for sure that 15 units per day is NOT the industry standard per day.
Last weekend at the Atlanta meeting, I watched a 7 minute build up with a clinician that teaches how to stack and contour 20 to 30 per day, but that is not the standard per day in average labs across the country.

Where did you hear this number of 15 per day ?
Charles

 

[rkm rdt]

As a dentist, will you be informing your patients about the volume of work you expect from your technician?

 

[rkm rdt]

I make 15 crowns per WEEK!

 

[odchamp]

In England 15 is regarded as very tops in quantity, that’s the porcelain complete from opaque to glaze but as mentioned this would be a high production lab, I would say 10 is a more realistic figure for an average sort of crown, anything better would require less units.
High production can equal high staff turnover.

 

[dmonwaxa]

How many technicians in ths lab?

 

[desertfox384]

I would say 10-12 or so, and thats for a production minded lab. Quality will start to rapidly decompose if the average tech tries to do more.

 

[imp_l]

thank you so much for your detailed insight.
the number 15, i heard from a lab technian. i thought that before i would demand the technian that works in my lab to comply this # i should get better information.
thanks
ami

 

[dmonwaxa]

thank you so much for your detailed insight.
the number 15, i heard from a lab technian. i thought that before i would demand the technian that works in my lab to comply this # i should get better information.
thanks
ami

There is no freakin way a "1" man lab ( thats what I'm getting here, because" i thought that before i would demand the technian that works in my lab to comply this # ) is going to produce 15 units a day,complete... conventionally or unconventionally. Unless there is 2 6 unit bridges and a 3 unit, but thats a stretch......better have your patients lined up to meet this expectation; and if you like them expect sub-standard work. Harsh yes., but it's the truth. Look I'm sure you are a conscientious provider if you want to be succesfull, let your work ( you and your lab) be your calling card. As they say, and I live by this " Rome wasn't built in a day"

 

[user name]

A techs day isnt the same as everyone elses. We work long hours. I used to be a three man show, but sent one packin', covered his duties and figured I can get it done faster and pocket the money. A couple years later I did the same and became a one man show. It meant 18 hour days as the norm and a 24 maybe once a month. I shot for a at least 8 units a day, a couple bouts with 12-15, and one day that was 22. That was the end. Now after reducing the number of accounts and actually having a life its a steady 5-6 a day. Big numbers 'can' be done. It will kill you. Now, once again Im doing the work (art) I fell in love with.

 

[bayarealabguy]

Hi everybody.
I am a dentist who owns a dental lab in Tel Aviv. I am new to this forum and from reading few posts, i found, there is agreat support from the group members.
can anyone support my asumption that 15 unit of ceramic per day is the industry standart?
Thanks
Ami

i meet a technician that writes articles on magazines. He said he never make more than 3 units per day.

i used to be a one man lab, average 3-5 units per day. Working 10-12 hours. if i average 15 units a day. i'll be sleeping in my lab.

 

[odchamp]

I think it could be a sign of the times, going back to high production.
I presume its the same in the US, the government introducing austerity measures making people look for ways to save money so there own standard of living will not decline.
I recently lost 2 clients one of 10 years plus, and the other about 3 years; both say it’s a matter of cost.
They appreciated the consistent quality (don’t like saying it myself) but when someone comes along who is a good tech and needs the work, and offers work at X then sometimes loyalty can go out of the window.
I for one will not be entering a price war with them as luckily I am not starting out and can afford to stick my nose up in the air.
Sorry I am rambling now but what I am trying to say is unless prices are fixed we are always going to be faced with quality verses quantity.
Technology could mean less techs needed in the future to produce the same amount of work which could make things worse in the future. Or it could mean we earn more money and finish at 2pm every day and go fishing, whatever happens this argument will continue for a while yet.

ps. sorry for being so miserable

 

[rkm rdt]

"Sorry I am rambling now but what I am trying to say is unless prices are fixed we are always going to be faced with quality verses quantity."

Bull****! Patients deserve choice and I will never lower my fees or standards to the average!

Fixed prices solves nothing, If you want to make more money then raise the( your) bar!

I have tripled my account base since this recession started because everyone else has lowered their fess and quality at the same time.

 

[charles007]

"Sorry I am rambling now but what I am trying to say is unless prices are fixed we are always going to be faced with quality verses quantity."

Bull****! Patients deserve choice and I will never lower my fees or standards to the average!

Fixed prices solves nothing, If you want to make more money then raise the( your) bar!

I have tripled my account base since this recession started because everyone else has lowered their fess and quality at the same time.

VERY WELL SAID, AND SO TRUE FOR THESE TIMES

 

[TheLabGuy]

"Sorry I am rambling now but what I am trying to say is unless prices are fixed we are always going to be faced with quality verses quantity."

Bull****! Patients deserve choice and I will never lower my fees or standards to the average!

Fixed prices solves nothing, If you want to make more money then raise the( your) bar!

I have tripled my account base since this recession started because everyone else has lowered their fess and quality at the same time.

Ditto with Charles, couldn't agree more. Raising my prices 15-25% across the board come 1st of the year. I had my first late case last week (put it on the shelf and totally missed that the due date required the case to be a rush case). I no-charged it because it was my fault, we are human and maybe it's time I get some software for due date tracking, but either way, I'm with many techs on here, I WON'T SACRIFICE QUALITY FOR QUANTITY and I also realize I've devoted a ton of time in CE and Education and that has to factor into price as well. If that can't be understood and the offices haven't seen the 15-25% increase in quality then I don't deserve them anyways is my thoughts....yours?

 

[dmonwaxa]

"Sorry I am rambling now but what I am trying to say is unless prices are fixed we are always going to be faced with quality verses quantity."

Bull****! Patients deserve choice and I will never lower my fees or standards to the average!

Fixed prices solves nothing, If you want to make more money then raise the( your) bar!

I have tripled my account base since this recession started because everyone else has lowered their fess and quality at the same time.

Good for you rkm rdt, and congratulations. Folks need to make a living thats true, but if we prostitute ourselves the way some do we'll all be in very bad shape. One thing I know, having loyal clients are a blessing; they are few and far in-between. Then there are those who would drop you in a heartbeat for a dollar. They are the ones who support that market, getting cheaper products while not passing any of the savings to their patients. Sad, people!!! WAKE UP!!

 

[JohnWilson]

I always love these threads.

Of course we all struggle with the question "What is our restorations worth"? The short answer is "its worth what someone is willing to pay for them". Consistentcy, fit, function, artistry, are all words we use when we try and convey to our clients that our work is WORTH more than a competitures. Raising fees and maintaing growth in a down ecconomy is a very very difficult thing to do.

If the businessmen of this site would actually take the time to look at there numbers and see where their growth has been it would be very obvious its probably not from producing a prettier crown. Its from developing relationships with your clients, its by being consistent, its by being a resorce for them. As many of you have seen long term clients can leave if the lose sight of the value you provide. Value is measured in many ways and figuring out your clients perception of value is what allows you to maintain that relationship in tough times. As I stated in another thread the cost of industry standard restorations is shrinking as the technology changes, our small niche market that wants to pay more than double the national average for a crown will get smaller and smaller.

Like a lot of you that puff your chest out and bragg of high fees I too have been there. I used to be one of the highest priced small labs in my area for 10 years with steady controlled growth. I enjoied a very good relationship with my clients and loved how the work found me. Now the game has changed, the players are getting smarter. Old timers are retiring and the new internet savy technology driven clients are now realizing what is avaialabe to them. The glossy trade magazine ads and direct mail pieces are now not the only ways these guys learn about new products. Clients are smarter than ever and I am starting to see a rise in the ammount of business sense new grads have compared to the past crops. Working smarter is going to have to be more important than perfecting the perfect butt margin. Working to be better busnessmen rather than artists will ensure your viability rather than saying the we will arbitrarilly raise our fees 15%. My perception has morphed as the industry has. I am looking more at spredsheets now than artisty based CE. With that said I am not looking to put out slopier products by a long shot. I am looking to put out quality products by controling costs with a minimal ammount of direct labor to ensure controled growth and consistent profit margins in my lab.

 

[rkm rdt]

I feel for my American counterparts here.I think I am benefitting from a separation of the lab fees from the dentist fees to the patient
I think if you could somehow lobby the insurance companies to demand separate billing you would be in a better position.