Wax milling

[adamb4321]

Is it really worthwhile milling or printing wax patterns?

I get that they (should) be more accurate and consistent, but surely the time it takes to scan and design and then mill/print before sprueing, investing and casting etc is way longer than just waxing by hand in the first place?

Doesn't it make more sense to scan and design and then mill in Zirconia? at least you end up with a (nearly) finished coping or framework?

Only asking because I'd like to dump the metal units for most cases and use zr instead.

 

[Chris Halke]

With the setup we have we can get two scans done in fiveish minutes and some of our designers are capable of producing 45 units in a day. I would venture to say its probably better utilized for mass manufacturing standpoint than maybe a few person lab.

 

[adamb4321]

ok, If I have to wax (by hand) up 45 bonded units but not including die trimming or painting it's going to take me 4 hours and maybe another hour or so to sprue and invest, after casting it will take me 4 and a half hours to trim them (if my hands don't drop off first)

 

[Mark Jackson]

We mill all our wax. Press-to, emax, FGC, everything. It goes to the model department (if necessary) and then to a scanning station as soon as the dies are trimmed. The scanned case is loaded into a folder for the appropriate department, and then the pan goes there afterwards for design and milling.

 

[BobCDT]

We mill all our wax. Press-to, emax, FGC, everything. It goes to the model department (if necessary) and then to a scanning station as soon as the dies are trimmed. The scanned case is loaded into a folder for the appropriate department, and then the pan goes there afterwards for design and milling.

Hi Mark,
We are using a similar production work flow. Models and dies (trimmed) scanned into 3Shape designed and milled in a Roland mill. Then we cast or press the patterns as needed. For now, this seemed to be the most accurate and economical work flow. We have done a lot of printing but the quality is superior when milled.
Bob

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

It depends how quickly you can scan, design, and nest. I always found milled full contour wax ups always needed adjustments in wax after milling. I would rather wax it manually. IMO

 

[BobCDT]

It depends how quickly you can scan, design, and nest. I always found milled full contour wax ups always needed adjustments in wax after milling. I would rather wax it manually. IMO

We have one person using 2 scanners, so, we get two cases scanned in about 5 minutes. We design using a proprietary anatomical library that provides great form. So, the designers can get to a final deign in about 20 mouse clicks, less than 5minutes. Next, we use auto sprucing for CAM set up. Lastly we have a mill strategy that uses a 0.3mm tool for final occlusal detain. Yes there is probably an additional 1-2 minutes of analog adjustment to the wax up. Total labor time spent is probably a little less than 10minutes for a great full contour wax up.
Bob

 

[DMC]

I sell prints for $2.95 and make profit.

What do you Two fools charge for milled wax?

Searching for highest quality on the cheapest mill?

m.

I hope you are not on my team for the scavenger hunt next week.

 

[DMC]

.

 

[Kaypan]

I love having a milling machine at our lab, to mill everything except metal. I used to manually wax metal copings and full contour e.max.

Is it worthwile milling/printing wax? Yes, without a doubt for myself and our lab. I got reasonable good at designing in CAD, and knew how tight to design contacts, occlusal heights etc. Minimal adjustment after milling, and I got occlusal anatomy in the blink of an eye which would have taken "forever" to wax up manually. CAD software generates spacing and digitally blocks undercuts. Saves some time. Using a 3D mouse also saves a lot of time.

I like the idea of no drill compensation on wax to be pressed/cast. Thats an advantage of printing wax, instead of milling. I dont think I would outsorce for a wax coping to be cast in house, unless it had to be high/semi noble. I´d rather just order a laser sintered reasonable CoCr coping.

Personally I think a good/effective CAD designer is more profitable compared to a good/effective manual waxer.

 

[dentcre]

what is the cost of a wax milling setup? for pbm copings ,bridges,full cast...thanks

 

[Mark Jackson]

I sell prints for $2.95 and make profit.

What do you Two fools charge for milled wax?

Searching for highest quality on the cheapest mill?

m.

I hope you are not on my team for the scavenger hunt next week.

I can't sell anything for $2.95 and make a profit. I can't open an e-mail for that. My fixed overhead wouldn't allow it.

You either run one hell of an operation, or your accountant needs some CE.

 

[YMS96]

I sell prints for $2.95 and make profit.

Not much though. 3D Systems material is expensive.

 

[DMC]

I have tricks!

No test strip with UDH!!

Very Minimum Purge Cycle.

I bet I use less than 1/2 the material that you do.

 

[sirmorty]

Does anyone have any settings (3shape) that they could share with regards to milling wax copings?

This is what they are set to currently.



I have been trying a few but the Margins are just not there in someplaces, Also some of them are a bit "springy" depending on the prep. They seat but slowly pop up.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

crank down that Extension offset to the lowest possible setting (0.020mm) and you will get much nicer margins. it will still mill just fine for us in the laserdenta, and yes, even in wax. i also suggest you balance your spacer settings. you want to balance it so that both numbers are close to or matching each other; we use cement gap .025 and extra gap .04

we use Talladium's blue wax pucks. works just fine.

however to answer the question posed at the beginning of the thread - milling wax copings isnt *really* what i think the CAD system designers envisioned when they made your system compatible with wax.

while the opportunity is there to mill wax copings, the uses of milled wax are few. for very very talented cad designers, you can mill full contour wax, sprue and press emax without reaction layer, polish and be done. this idea of waxing by hand really only caters to the generation behind the newest in the field; the old people.

using wax pots is a messy, dirty, hazardous to your health and fire code, and time consuming process. the kids these days know how to move a mouse just as well as you old people can move your wax knives.

the distinct advantage to CAD in general is its compatibility with all the systems. with monolithics, with denturism, with ortho, and with case preparation and design.

milling wax copings - its like buying a swiss army knife for the corkscrew bit. you will make money when the processes in the lab streamline into the milling machine. mill not only wax coping but zirconia, full contour wax and pmma temps, bars, custom denture teeth, and a whole host of other things.

there are folks who have made a LOT of money by taking video game models, and converting them to .stl files to mill in wax/pmma to sell for 5$ as custom chess pieces or figurines for warhammer games, or model train bits.

 

[adamb4321]

To those of you that are milling or printing do you try the resulting milling/printing back on the die before investing or do you go straight to sprue and invest? If you do try the pattern onto the die are you making adjustments to the margin?

 

[Chris Halke]

To those of you that are milling or printing do you try the resulting milling/printing back on the die before investing or do you go straight to sprue and invest? If you do try the pattern onto the die are you making adjustments to the margin?

Yes, we double check contact, excursions, and marginal fit before investing.

 

[Macron Dental Lab]

I can't sell anything for $2.95 and make a profit. I can't open an e-mail for that. My fixed overhead wouldn't allow it.

You either run one hell of an operation, or your accountant needs some CE.

 

[BobCDT]

Yes, we double check contact, excursions, and marginal fit before investing.

We print and mill patterns to press and or cast. All the units go through QC and probable touch up. The printed parts requires more post processing than milled.
Bob