TrueDef IOS

[BobCDT]

The official approved chairside component is the e4d.

Officially approved by whom? If you hop over to Dental Town they seem to be crushing e4d.

 

[Alistar]

These could be stupid questions, and not to get off topic, but.....

With an IOS this cheap what would stop a dental office from getting a TrueDef IOS with STL export package and purchasing their own Roland or any "open" mill, and milling their own Lava Ultimates or whatever they want on one of those? (and for the doctor across the hall?)

At $12k or $6.5k for the upgrade and $200 or $350 for the data a month, they could get their own mill for another $40k. Amortized over 5years you're looking at some where between $800 and $1000 a month for their own "open" in-house milling solution. (not including operating expenses and support. Anyone have a $$$ number for this?)

Why doesn't a new company enter the "in office" milling market with a milling solution that costs a fraction of a Cerec mill, performs better, and can talk with all the new IOS's?

I'm sure my pea-brain is jumping over many layers of logistics that would need to be overcome for this to work, but isn't this the end game for chair-side IOS's and cad/cam? Any IOS, with any mill, in any millable restoration material.

I guess I'm just imagining all the ways a large portion my job could be come obsolete.

 

[BobCDT]

The time may be coming closer. I believe you have left out the CAD software. Likely, Exocad. In addition, the Roland is a dry mill. As a result, you can mill zirconia, PMMA and wax. Not all that useful in a clinical environment. Toss in a wet mill and the chair side work flow is good to go.

 

[charles007]

These could be stupid questions, and not to get off topic, but.....

With an IOS this cheap what would stop a dental office from getting a TrueDef IOS with STL export package and purchasing their own Roland or any "open" mill, and milling their own Lava Ultimates or whatever they want on one of those? (and for the doctor across the hall?)

At $12k or $6.5k for the upgrade and $200 or $350 for the data a month, they could get their own mill for another $40k. Amortized over 5years you're looking at some where between $800 and $1000 a month for their own "open" in-house milling solution. (not including operating expenses and support. Anyone have a $$$ number for this?)

Why doesn't a new company enter the "in office" milling market with a milling solution that costs a fraction of a Cerec mill, performs better, and can talk with all the new IOS's?

I'm sure my pea-brain is jumping over many layers of logistics that would need to be overcome for this to work, but isn't this the end game for chair-side IOS's and cad/cam? Any IOS, with any mill, in any millable restoration material.

I guess I'm just imagining all the ways a large portion my job could be come obsolete.

"to be overcome for this to work"
All it will take is time

Anyone watch the Webinar Jensen gave last week on the system they sell ? Its just a matter of time before our accounts buy this mill to mill Ultimate and buy the 3M Oral scanner.. Who knows, they may have a package deal already in the making. 3M Ultimate could take a big bite into the Cerec/emax love affair ?
I remember when Axel sold imes mills and sold the same 4 axis vhf mill that also came in a 5 axis and a Wet version. Don't know if the larger version of the vhf mill are still sold or still made ?

 

[Alistar]

The time may be coming closer. I believe you have left out the CAD software. Likely, Exocad. In addition, the Roland is a dry mill. As a result, you can mill zirconia, PMMA and wax. Not all that useful in a clinical environment. Toss in a wet mill and the chair side work flow is good to go.

I did Bob. That would add, what? $100 a month or so for a c&b/inlay/onlay module for exocad?

Isn't that jensen VHF mill a dry mill? That mills Lava Ulitmate right?

 

[Rick Sonntag]

3M has actually partnered with E4D and from my understanding, invested in the company itself and is now a part-owner. Chairside milling / same-day restorations will continue to grow, it now becomes a matter of how we can profit from it. What's to keep you as a lab owner from doing same-day / next day milled composites and provide that before they go out and buy a mill? I was told that the lag time from chairside scan to margin marking is 1-2 hours for post-processing, then another 1-2 hours from margin marking to stl file in your lab, so anything prepped and scanned before 11:00 AM could be placed the same day if the lab has a mill to do it with. Not only have you saved them and the patient 5 -14 days (traditional turnaround times),you've made dentistry easier for them. What does something like this mean for small local labs who've had to compete with the big mail-order labs or China for that matter? Sounds like an opportunity to me.

What about from the patient's perspective? If they can get the single unit posteriors done in a day and have a positive dental experience (ie no impressions, temps for a day, no temps at all, etc) wouldn't they be more likely to have more comprehensive and esthetic work done? The market for bridges, implants, and functional esthetics isn't going anywhere, I think something like this can "sell" dentistry. Sounds like opportunity to me.

What about the lab business model? Look at the workflow when doing this type of work; you pull the files and have a crown designed in about 10 minutes, the crown gets milled and it's either polished and sent (if you choose model-less dentistry) or you wait for the models to verify contacts, occlusion, etc., then polish and send. There's no metal department it has to go through, no investment to inhale, no wax to burn out, and no need to buy that extra pressing furnace. What does this do to your labor costs? How many small lab owners have been held hostage by metal technicians or have had their growth stymied because of metal departments and finding personnel? I see opportunity here.

My 2 cents
Rick

 

[ceram1]

Officially approved by whom? If you hop over to Dental Town they seem to be crushing e4d.

E4D Design Center and E4D Mill Announced as the First Tested and Trusted Connection for the 3M True Definition Scanner

Connection expands flexibility and choices for dentists entering CAD/CAM dentistry

Richardson, TX and St. Paul, MN. - (October 18, 2012) - 3M ESPE and D4D Technologies announced today the E4D Design Center and E4D Mill as the first trusted chairside connection for the newly released digital impression system, the 3M™ True Definition Scanner from 3M ESPE. 3M announced earlier this week that the stand-alone digital impression system will allow for open connections with third-party systems through the 3M Connection Center.

“We believe dentists want choice and flexibility, and that many of our customers will want the option to design and fabricate metal-free restorations chairside in the office,” said Mark Farmer, President, 3M ESPE. “By establishing a connection with the E4D Design Center and E4D Mill, 3M True Definition Scanner customers will have the option to mill in the office for same-day restorations through a reliable connection that has been clinically tested by 3M and D4D.”

“This collaboration with 3M and their True Definition Scanner along with the introduction of the E4D Sky™ network and new design software (v4.5),provide dental professionals with a truly open network of chairside restorative solutions for patient treatment,” said Gary Severance DDS, D4D Technologies. “We are extremely pleased and honored that 3M selected E4D as its first trusted connection.”

The 3M True Definition Scanner and the E4D Design Center and E4D Mill are available separately or as an integrated CAD/CAM system through Henry Schein Dental.

Both 3M ESPE and D4D Technologies are exhibiting at the ADA annual session in San Francisco from October 18-21, 2012. For more information, visit 3M ESPE at True Definition Scanner: 3M ESPE Dental Products US and booth #5644, C7N and D4D Technologies at booth # 1036.

About D4D Technologies
D4D Technologies is taking the dental profession to a higher level of productivity, patient comfort and convenience with its E4D restorative solutions. DentaLogic™ software in the E4D Design Center enables the operator to customize a virtual restoration before it is sent to the robust E4D Mill for fabrication. With the introduction of version 4.5 and E4D Sky™, each of these system components is now also available for custom configurations and interfaces to meet the needs of any dental office or laboratory.

E4D Sky communicates with E4D Digital Services, certified E4D dental laboratories, and any third-party provider accepting open format files (.stl) for a full range of production and delivery options. E4D Compass™ integrates E4D restorative designs with cone beam data to plan and communicate restoratively-driven implant therapies. E4D Compare™, the latest addition to the E4D suite of products, employs adaptive learning technology to dental education. Headquartered in Richardson, TX, a suburb of Dallas, D4D Technologies has partnerships with major corporations in the dental profession: Henry Schein Dental is responsible for global sales and distribution; 3M ESPE and Ivoclar Vivadent provide restorative materials. Visit Home for more information.

E4D Dentist, E4D Sky, E4D DentaLogic, E4D Compass, and E4D Compare are trademarks of D4D Technologies LLC.

About 3M ESPE and 3M Health Care
3M ESPE is a dental product manufacturer that markets more than 2,000 dental products and services. 3M ESPE dental products are designed to help dental professionals improve their patients' oral health care. The 3M Digital Oral Care Department, part of the 3M ESPE Division, aims to accelerate and strengthen 3M’s efforts to lead the digital transformation that is occurring in oral care. 3M Health Care, provides world-class innovative products and services to help health care professionals improve the practice and delivery of patient care in medical, oral care, drug delivery and health information markets. For more information on the complete 3M ESPE line of dental products, visit the 3M ESPE website at 3MESPE.com or call the 3M ESPE Technical Hotline at 1-800-634-2249. Products are available for purchase through authorized 3M ESPE distributors.

3M and ESPE are trademarks of 3M or 3M Deutschland GmbH. Used under license in Canada. (C) 3M 2012. All rights reserved.

About 3M
3M captures the spark of new ideas and transforms them into thousands of ingenious products. Our culture of creative collaboration inspires a never-ending stream of powerful technologies that make life better. 3M is the innovation company that never stops inventing. With $30 billion in sales, 3M employs 84,000 people worldwide and has operations in more than 65 countries. For more information, visit 3M Global Gateway Page or follow @3MNews on Twitter.

Contact:
Diane Mazzarella
D4D Technologies LLC
214-432-6345
[email protected]

Vanessa de Bruijn
Karwoski & Courage
651-342-9670
[email protected]




Yea, I won't be subsidizing any gp scanner purchases. -Eric-

 

[Alistar]

And boom goes the dynamite.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[ceram1]

I really like 3m as innovators and they bring some very consistent products to market. But this feeling of being kicked in theass is getting all to familiar. How long till 3 shape is in a joint chairside stream lined software for a open chairside grinder. My schien tech rep recently told me e4d is going stl as well......... There has been a decision that you will need to have a mill available to sell iOS. Not a network of providers.

 

[ceram1]

Oh I forgot, schien is first channel partner to sell iOS it is not direct from 3m.

 

[ParkwayDental]

How much are the current COS printed models?

 

[YMS96]

I really like 3m as innovators and they bring some very consistent products to market. But this feeling of being kicked in theass is getting all to familiar. How long till 3 shape is in a joint chairside stream lined software for a open chairside grinder. My schien tech rep recently told me e4d is going stl as well......... There has been a decision that you will need to have a mill available to sell iOS. Not a network of providers.

I heard something about 3Shape working with a milling company to provide some sort of all in one solution, not sure if it's true though.

 

[PCDL]

These could be stupid questions, and not to get off topic, but.....

With an IOS this cheap what would stop a dental office from getting a TrueDef IOS with STL export package and purchasing their own Roland or any "open" mill, and milling their own Lava Ultimates or whatever they want on one of those? (and for the doctor across the hall?)

At $12k or $6.5k for the upgrade and $200 or $350 for the data a month, they could get their own mill for another $40k. Amortized over 5years you're looking at some where between $800 and $1000 a month for their own "open" in-house milling solution. (not including operating expenses and support. Anyone have a $$$ number for this?)

Why doesn't a new company enter the "in office" milling market with a milling solution that costs a fraction of a Cerec mill, performs better, and can talk with all the new IOS's?

I'm sure my pea-brain is jumping over many layers of logistics that would need to be overcome for this to work, but isn't this the end game for chair-side IOS's and cad/cam? Any IOS, with any mill, in any millable restoration material.

I guess I'm just imagining all the ways a large portion my job could be come obsolete.

Im not overly worried about this. Most dentists don't want to be lab techs, nor do they feel comfortable with this kind of equipment (as I said, most dentists). Some do like it, and want to play; but these guys have been cerec docs or casting their own gold crowns, so you haven't seen their work anyhow.

Most dentists want to be dentists. They are the sole producer in their office, whereas lab owners rely on the production of staff. If the dentist isn't prepping the teeth, no restorations are getting made, less income. Now, this isnt to say that some make it work. I have one client that is a very big cerec doc, and a mentor trainer. He has told me point blank that he has no idea, nor does he care, how much his restorations cost him. He simply likes the technology, and supplements his income doing his own endo (very profitable),as well as his own ortho. So be it, but he is far from the majority.

Don't worry. Position yourself ahead of the curve and you wont fall off the wave.

 

[Alistar]

How much are the current COS printed models?

I think we pay $22, and something like $3 a die? Or that could be Itero.



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[Adigitalsmile]

So just had a doctor call that is very interested in the system because of the $13k price point with the scanner that 3M is advertising to him. Of course the rep never mentioned to him that there would be a $329 a month for the stl open export. So whats the benefits of the scanner and who can print models from the intraoral scan?

 

[BobCDT]

We (CAP) have a 3D Systems MP 3500 model printer. Just testing it out. We Will roll out digital modes for all very shortly.

 

[Labwa]

what colour bob?

 

[ryanbrandon]

My Jensen rep told me that labs will have to pay a fee of +$900 to accept the files the docs upload to the cloud or software to download it...

Is this $900 a one time fee or yearly, etc...?

 

[sirmorty]

wow $900 to have access to a FTP server. I hope it does more then just allow you to get files from it.

 

[ceram1]

wow $900 to have access to a FTP server. I hope it does more then just allow you to get files from it.

Is this just the original lab margin marking software, pretty sure. We were told by 3M that ours will continue to accept the old and the new, they were unable to tell me how to opt out of their models all together though. Jensen lava 7 has a model module (dental wings that is supposed to be part of 7.2 but isn't, maybe 7.3. I feel the models have always been the week link in the cos system, the proximal contact discrepancies make it hard for me to imagine a bridge of any consequence. Singles only IMHO.