Staining zirconia copings

[Aldad]

Hi guys ,
I am new to this fourm ,as far as posting, been lurking for a while. I have always stained my pfm frames after opaquing, set the stain low temp.750c,1min. Then I do my build up. This is gives me more options for color mods. 20 years no problem. When I started working with zirc. I have been doing the same except after the stain I do a bonding layer with porc 90c.deg higher that the normal baking temp. Thus fusing the stain and porc to the coping at the same time, Then I start my build up. I use stains like emax shades or Wieland zirox stains, or the new Shofu art stains. I have had no problems with debonding as of yet. However I am a low volume lab and have only done less than 200 units. So before I have a possible problem. Does anybody have a issue with this technique. Could the stains having a high concentration of metalic oxide cause a problematic bond? Or the slight difference in cte cause cracking?
Any thoughts on this? Cheer!

 

[CatamountRob]

Aldad,
I use e.max ceram for zirconia, if I want to stain the coping, I do it after firing zirliner on it. Rob

 

[DevonR]

Aldad,
We use the full Weiland Zirox system and do the same thing as you. I sometimes stain the zr copings (bake on a 1st bake) then apply a thin layer of body porcelain and just put it in under the liner bake program. We have had no problems with the bond this way.
I will go on to add that we've found it to be important to support the crown everywhere, thus we build out the zirconia copings in the contact areas just like you would with a pfm.

 

[clearH2O]

stain zirconia frame

Aldad,
I use e.max ceram for zirconia, if I want to stain the coping, I do it after firing zirliner on it. Rob

I use eMax ceram too. What stain did you use after firing zirliner?
thanks
clearh2o

 

[Aldad]

Aldad,
We use the full Weiland Zirox system and do the same thing as you.

Devon,
I have used the Reflex and Zirox for years. I love the porc except for the Reflex margin. I do multiple bakes and it opens up. So I use Omega 900 margin, works great. Only now it is discontinued. I was thinking of moving on to a new porc this year because I feel like I am the only one using it. I am suprised It really never caught on. It's a very durable forgiving, easy to use and it looks great!

 

[CatamountRob]

I use eMax ceram too. What stain did you use after firing zirliner?
thanks
clearh2o

clearh2o,
I use the e.Max stains. Rob

 

[clearH2O]

clearh2o,
I use the e.Max stains. Rob

Hi Rob. have you done modified zircon frame by using e-max stain? I modified opaque on p.f.m case to increase its aesthetic. It is similarity here?
Thank you
clearh2o

 

[DevonR]

Devon,
I have used the Reflex and Zirox for years. I love the porc except for the Reflex margin. I do multiple bakes and it opens up. So I use Omega 900 margin, works great. Only now it is discontinued. I was thinking of moving on to a new porc this year because I feel like I am the only one using it. I am suprised It really never caught on. It's a very durable forgiving, easy to use and it looks great!

Hi Aldad,

We use the Reflex Porcelain as well. However, i don't have the margin problems you have. Infact, one margin bake and I'm on to building the crown. I wonder if your margins are reduced too much (when trimming the metal) therefore causing you to pile on the margin porcelain? Just a thought... btw, if I have a minor tear after a margin bake, i don't worry as it gets filled with body porcelain.

btw, we used the omega 900 porcelain as well and still have a few bottles kickin around here.. heh heh

 

[Aldad]

Hi Aldad,

Infact, one margin bake and I'm on to building the crown. I wonder if your margins are reduced too much

Yes I do an agressive cutback, the full shoulder as it should be for best light transmision. It's not possible IMO to do one bake and have it closed. Two bakes and were good. The problem is after two or three body bakes It's open. I close in the glaze but often the gap is bigger than I like. Too much work. That's wy I like the omega 900, no movement no matter how many bakes. Just a small touchup in the glaze. Cheer!

 

[DevonR]

Yes I do an agressive cutback, the full shoulder as it should be for best light transmision. It's not possible IMO to do one bake and have it closed. Two bakes and were good. The problem is after two or three body bakes It's open. I close in the glaze but often the gap is bigger than I like. Too much work. That's wy I like the omega 900, no movement no matter how many bakes. Just a small touchup in the glaze. Cheer!

Reflex has a shoulder correction porcelain just for this... but i guess you're trying to avoid another bake huh.