Miyo gingival stain has "salty taste" after delivering Zirconia All on X

[jacobzking]

So we delivered an upper All on X Zirconia prosthetic about 2 years ago for a patient. Overall everything went well, but from day one patient has complained that it tastes salty. He never gets used to it and it never goes away. A year later, we deliver a lower all on x from a different lab, and zero complaints of salt taste from lower. We just recently removed the upper (salty prosthetic) and patient instantly said the tase was gone. I don't think he's crazy.

I do know that the upper was stained with Miyo (according to the lab). Patient feels like its coming from the pink gingival stain.

Has anyone ever heard of this?

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

So we delivered an upper All on X Zirconia prosthetic about 2 years ago for a patient. Overall everything went well, but from day one patient has complained that it tastes salty. He never gets used to it and it never goes away. A year later, we deliver a lower all on x from a different lab, and zero complaints of salt taste from lower. We just recently removed the upper (salty prosthetic) and patient instantly said the tase was gone. I don't think he's crazy.

I do know that the upper was stained with Miyo (according to the lab). Patient feels like its coming from the pink gingival stain.

Has anyone ever heard of this?

This is a new one for me. I don't see how it could be the Miyo. Is there any metal involved in the bridge? Like a bar? I am wondering if there is some kind of a reaction going on between whatever metal might be involved in the bridge and the oral environment.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

So we delivered an upper All on X Zirconia prosthetic about 2 years ago for a patient. Overall everything went well, but from day one patient has complained that it tastes salty. He never gets used to it and it never goes away. A year later, we deliver a lower all on x from a different lab, and zero complaints of salt taste from lower. We just recently removed the upper (salty prosthetic) and patient instantly said the tase was gone. I don't think he's crazy.

I do know that the upper was stained with Miyo (according to the lab). Patient feels like its coming from the pink gingival stain.

Has anyone ever heard of this?

I also want to ask you a favor. This is your first post on our forum. We use this place to learn from each other. I took a bit of my time to answer your question. Could you please keep us updated with whatever information you find about how that bridge was fabricated. This is how we all become better technicians and clinicians. Thank you

 

[jacobzking]

I spoke with Nick at Miyo yesterday and that was new for him as well. The only metal was the MUA copings. Nick and I discussed all different types of possibilities (hygiene related issues, fungus, etc) but nothing really panned out. The "salty taste" started pretty much immediately once we delivered the upper. It stayed in his mouth for 2 years, and the whole time the patient had the complaint, but he dealt with it. We did remove the upper All on X twice over the 2 year period and cleaned it for him, but that didn't resolve the taste issue.

The ONLY thing I can come up with, is that this was made in Oct 2021. During that time period, I think that's when supply chain issues were at their worst. Maybe the lab that made the prosthetic was short on MiYo stain and had to use a substitute brand? I'm reaching, but that's all I can come up with.

We're in the middle of remaking the All on X for the patient due to breakage, the same lab is remaking it. So we'll see if he has the same issue once we deliver the new prosthetic. Additionally, I considered grinding off all of the pink stained areas from his old unit since its broken, and letting him try it for a day to see if that resolved it.

I'll keep the post updated.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

I spoke with Nick at Miyo yesterday and that was new for him as well. The only metal was the MUA copings. Nick and I discussed all different types of possibilities (hygiene related issues, fungus, etc) but nothing really panned out. The "salty taste" started pretty much immediately once we delivered the upper. It stayed in his mouth for 2 years, and the whole time the patient had the complaint, but he dealt with it. We did remove the upper All on X twice over the 2 year period and cleaned it for him, but that didn't resolve the taste issue.

The ONLY thing I can come up with, is that this was made in Oct 2021. During that time period, I think that's when supply chain issues were at their worst. Maybe the lab that made the prosthetic was short on MiYo stain and had to use a substitute brand? I'm reaching, but that's all I can come up with.

We're in the middle of remaking the All on X for the patient due to breakage, the same lab is remaking it. So we'll see if he has the same issue once we deliver the new prosthetic. Additionally, I considered grinding off all of the pink stained areas from his old unit since its broken, and letting him try it for a day to see if that resolved it.

I'll keep the post updated.

The MUA copings eliminates my suspicions about it being a metal reaction. Thanks for following up.

 

[RileyS]

here’s my highly uneducated guess.
Covid. Not only did it cause absolute stupidity to run rampant but it also changed taste buds. My experience was losing 100% off my taste for 2 solid months and a slow regeneration over the following 7-9 months. Most sodas, except energy drinks, taste like Lysol to this day.
Then out of the blue, shredded iceberg lettuce like you get on fast food burgers and subs tasted like chemicals and rotten meat. It took me about 3 subs from my favorite place to realize it was the lettuce. Two years later and it’s diminished a little but still tastes terrible.
Then you have that highly effective vaccine and booster that’s 100% safe and zero side effects (huge eye roll). Maybe your pt is the one person that has had side effects…. And it’s a weird one.

 

[doug]

My first call would be to Jensen.

 

[CatamountRob]

There was a guy that came on here years ago with an odd taste issue with e.max, I don’t think that’s a widespread issue either. The way people perceive taste varies widely, some of it is genetic and nothing should be too surprising.

 

[Contraluz]

Is there any metal involved in the bridge?

Aren't the coloring pigments metal oxides?

 

[Car 54]

Aren't the coloring pigments metal oxides?

I've asked this twice, once to a MiYO rep, and once online with Terry M. Are the satins metal oxide based, or as they keep touting a "liquid ceramic"? Both times they were coy, including Terry's.."maybe" answer.

 

[Contraluz]

During that time period, I think that's when supply chain issues were at their worst. Maybe the lab that made the prosthetic was short on MiYo stain and had to use a substitute brand?

I do have that gingiva kit too, but MiYo is not a 'magical' brand and everything else is inferior. It is great for what it is, but you would be surprised to know how many of the different brands out come from same few companies actually producing these porcelains and materials. Sometimes it is just a different packaging, sometimes not even that.

PS: I am not saying MiYo is a rebranded material! What I want to point out is, unless you use some crazy off brand with doubtful origin (China and others),all the reputable brands, in general, offer quality materials.

 

[Contraluz]

I've asked this twice, once to a MiYO rep, and once online with Terry M. Are the satins metal oxide based, or as they keep touting a "liquid ceramic"? Both times they were coy, including Terry's.."maybe" answer.

My understanding is that the color red is almost impossible to produce, unless you want to poison your Pt. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in and tell us what is used to make those beautiful colors, besides metal oxides.

 

[Affinity]

Did you try it when the old one came back to see if hes lying?

 

[desertfox384]

The can says to "apply liberally"

 

[Sda36]

My understanding is that the color red is almost impossible to produce, unless you want to poison your Pt. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in and tell us what is used to make those beautiful colors, besides metal oxides.

My understanding is that the color red is almost impossible to produce, unless you want to poison your Pt. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in and tell us what is used to make those beautiful colors, besides metal oxides.

Hi, my understanding of red missing in our labs was the banning of Cadmium quite a while ago. It affected ceramics as well as acrylics to some degree. To see true red you would need to use China stains, likely lead based and unacceptable for our use. My understanding of Miyo Trans is that Rare Earth Elements are more likely used as opposed to metallic oxides as the latter is not transparent, like Miyo. Our old PFM days used metallic oxides and for sure drove us crazy with Maetamerism, a phenomenon which causes us to perceive a difference in color under different lighting conditions.
Remember offices walking patients out to the parking lot into the sunlight, also at any given hour? Nightmares still continue...
From my experience with Miyo, Zero complaints of this, rarely and I mean rarely do we need to adjust shading compared to past PFM days with accompanying stains.
I say daily thank God for Miyo as well as thank you Hank Haney for fixing my golf slice. Honestly!
Not an add for Miyo in Any way but just my honest appreciation for the product. I know there are others out there but I'm completely satisfied with the product.
I do believe COVID is a warranted investigation as I had a touch of it July 22 after attending my Son's wedding. I felt just off, nothing major but I had body oder 3 hours After showering and it was Strong. I have never had Any issue in the past with this ever, even during Covid I could go 5 days without a shower and Zero BO scent. After doing some research, found out that Covid attacked the gland responsible and say no more. Just so weird how this menace can affect our health in so many ways.
So, yes, taste / covid is most certainly a major factor to consider as ceramics pose no possible contribution, whatsoever, to taste.

 

[grantoz]

what glaze did you use as some of the older types of glazes and stains had higher amounts of borax in them and the would slowly dissolve just check no one in the lab thought they would just use something they found in the back of the draw. or ask the patient what they do for a job hehehehe

 

[jacobzking]

what glaze did you use as some of the older types of glazes and stains had higher amounts of borax in them and the would slowly dissolve just check no one in the lab thought they would just use something they found in the back of the draw. or ask the patient what they do for a job hehehehe

The pink stain HAS faded a bit over the course of 2 years, so its possible that it correlates to what you're saying about the glass fading.

 

[jacobzking]

Did you try it when the old one came back to see if hes lying?

I really don't think he's making it up. He's actually gone without anything on the upper for about 2 weeks and he's happy that the taste is gone. So I'm really hoping that when we deliver his new prosthetic, the complaints goes away. I'll know in about another week or two when we deliver the replacement.

 

[Affinity]

Sorry I was just being irreverent. I dont doubt it either.. I lick my brush so I know what miyo tastes like. Salty is a hard thing to describe, metallic/salty/mineral.. If you sucked on a titanium abutment for awhile you would probably taste something also.

 

[rkm rdt]

Just be happy it didn’t taste like a salty seaman.