Priceing a FCZ

[BobCDT]

Hi,
I really think we all need to be looking at FCZ as two distinctly different products. Monochromatic (dipped)'and multicolored. We are multi shading all our FZ in the green state and the esthetics are definitely superior. Honestly, we have a small number of FZ anteriors flowing through on a regular basis.
So, when talking Bruxzir your talking monochromatic. If you are competing with that product Glidewell has set the price. If you are muti shading you are selling a different product.
Isn't there a big difference in a PFM that is built in just one body shade when compared to a unit with multiple powders? Making a significent profit in the FZ market requires separating your product from a dipped FZ restoration.

 

[ParkwayDental]

I am going to have to disagree with ya there Bob. So your saying just because we use Bruxzir we have to follow Glidewell price race to the bottom? Your wrong just because we use their product we don't follow their foot steps in everything. We put out the best Bruxzirs out there and we charge for our quality. My preference is I have more consistent results dipping then with painting in the green state. Ya you guys have a good product but my opinion is y'all over kill it with the stains. We all start with a monochromatic product some get to the end result differently then others, I feel I can make a Bruxzir look like the CAP FCZ. It is just my preference to not kill it with the stains. I just don't think its fair for you to be shunning a dip product. We do at least 2 anteriors a day now. Sorry no offense just my opinion.

 

[BobCDT]

We all start with a monochromatic product some get to the end result differently then others, I feel I can make a Bruxzir look like the CAP FCZ. It is just my preference to not kill it with the stains.

Sorry, I really didn't intend to put down Bruxzir. Without Glidewell none of us would be in the FCZ business. they created this entire market and deserve credit for it.
I really can't agree that we all start with a monochromatic product. We know the colorants get absorbed into green state zirconia. Yes, if we use only one shade (as is done when dipping) you get a monochromatic restoration. On the other hand, mult coloring the milled zirconia provides different colors and shade gradations. To me this is not monochromatic.
Let's just agree to disagree on this one.
No offense taken on my end. And, I hope there is none on yours as well.

 

[ParkwayDental]

Lol none taken Bob I'll be seeing y'all up there in 2 weeks.

 

[ts4341]

Sorry Tom... T

 

[shane williams]

So Bob your saying that there needs to be a different price for dipped FCZ than a multicolored, but how do you sell that? Its kinda the same with E-Max. We offer layerd and stained E-Max the dr's who want a nice looking anterior crown go for a layered(just an incisal cut back) crown. but there is always those docs that want cheap!! Its the same with FCZ, they are seeing this as an inexpensive solution to gold crowns, that still have the strength but with better aesthetics. If there are two prices they will go for the cheaper of the two. And when they seeing labs advertising $69-$89 FCZ that's what they expect you to provide.
Here's a good story, I got a call last week from a lab that sends me his zr work for me to mill for him. He told me that a lab in my town was offering E-Max for $100!!! Now this guys main Dr someone who always sends his work to him has already started sending to this other lab. Now someone on here tell me I'm wrong that docs don't see a price and see $$$ for themselves!! Just like with what we're seeing with this doc and E-Max we'll start seeing with FCZ thanks to the labs that market $69-$99 crowns!

 

[ts4341]

There is NO loyalty amongst Dentist. Luckily I have few that want quality and skill over cheap low-end cr@p. (Its funny to see on ebays dental milling thread, Cerec/Sirona/Pattersons lead the league with lots of Cerec systems dentists are trying to on load) A fair price for functional Full Contour designed, milled and finished, that is made from quality YZ Zirconia material(not all Zirconia is the same)has to be in the 120 - 140 range, anything under that and labs are just cut-throating and selling out..

 

[BobCDT]

So Bob your saying that there needs to be a different price for dipped FCZ than a multicolored, but how do you sell that? Its kinda the same with E-Max. We offer layerd and stained E-Max the dr's who want a nice looking anterior crown go for a layered(just an incisal cut back) crown. but there is always those docs that want cheap!! Its the same with FCZ, they are seeing this as an inexpensive solution to gold crowns, that still have the strength but with better aesthetics. If there are two prices they will go for the cheaper of the two. And when they seeing labs advertising $69-$89 FCZ that's what they expect you to provide.
Here's a good story, I got a call last week from a lab that sends me his zr work for me to mill for him. He told me that a lab in my town was offering E-Max for $100!!! Now this guys main Dr someone who always sends his work to him has already started sending to this other lab. Now someone on here tell me I'm wrong that docs don't see a price and see $$$ for themselves!! Just like with what we're seeing with this doc and E-Max we'll start seeing with FCZ thanks to the labs that market $69-$99 crowns!

Hi,
We use the multi coloring as a differentiator. Does it take a "D" crown and make it an "A+"? Obviously not. I'm not really interested in the docs that want the cheapest crown they can buy. Buy providing a similar but yet different product it's easily justifiable to charge a higher fee. This is achieved by educationng the docs on the product we sell and many will pay pay extra for it. We are charging a really good fee fo FZ and selling a lot and its growing momthly. In fact, its really taking a bite out of our e.max mono product.
However, our FZ crown is still relatively inexpensive when compared to a PFG that they were all using just a few months or years ago. Bottom line, our FZ model is saving the docs money and is quite profitable for us. Win, win.

 

[shane williams]

Hi,
We use the multi coloring as a differentiator. Does it take a "D" crown and make it an "A+"? Obviously not. I'm not really interested in the docs that want the cheapest crown they can buy. Buy providing a similar but yet different product it's easily justifiable to charge a higher fee. This is achieved by educationng the docs on the product we sell and many will pay pay extra for it. We are charging a really good fee fo FZ and selling a lot and its growing momthly. In fact, its really taking a bite out of our e.max mono product.
However, our FZ crown is still relatively inexpensive when compared to a PFG that they were all using just a few months or years ago. Bottom line, our FZ model is saving the docs money and is quite profitable for us. Win, win.

It's not like we are out advertising to get cheap docs. These docs that are getting the FCZ are Dr we already had that were using gold and E-Max and now have switched to FCZ. The point I've been trying to make on here is when they see a cheaper product that they are already using at a different lab they'll seriously consider switching. It's in large part of how Glidewell is advertising. I'm not saying I want to compete with them or produce a billion bruxier crowns to offset cost to make profit, what it's doing is causing docs to question our prices and start a bidding war. It's are own dr's that are doing this. 3 of are docs who send regularly gold and E-Max have now switched entirely to FCZ. They do it not for aesthetics vs gold or strength vs pfm they do it for $. I could educate all day to them about multi colored vs dipped but in the end they want a cheaper crown so they make more $. I posted earlier I feel sorry for the labs still outsourcing FCZ cuz when you're paying $40 a crown and trying to compete with a $99 your margin for profit diminishs rapidly.

 

[Tom Moore]

I posted earlier I feel sorry for the labs still outsourcing FCZ cuz when you're paying $40 a crown and trying to compete with a $99 your margin for profit diminishs rapidly.

Is $59 a unit to marginate and satin and glaze not enough? What good bench tech could not do 15 a day? If you took the gross from the 15@$59 and took a 1/3 to pay only the labor that would be $6400 a month for a salary from a 20k gross. The other 2/3 should pay for overhead and a healthy profit for the lab and it's owner.

I like the path of least resistance when I'm selling and $99 is so much easier to sell than $140 and if you run a good tight business it possible to be very profitable at $99 even with domestic overhead.

I encourage everyone to charge $140 for a FCZ...yea thats the ticket!

 

[corona]

Is $59 a unit to marginate and satin and glaze not enough? What good bench tech could not do 15 a day? If you took the gross from the 15@$59 and took a 1/3 to pay only the labor that would be $6400 a month for a salary from a 20k gross. The other 2/3 should pay for overhead and a healthy profit for the lab and it's owner.

I like the path of least resistance when I'm selling and $99 is so much easier to sell than $140 and if you run a good tight business it possible to be very profitable at $99 even with domestic overhead.

I encourage everyone to charge $140 for a FCZ...yea thats the ticket!

Tom , the first part of your sentence i agree with . Trying to keep a lean running business keeps your profits as high as possible .
But the second part ???? IMO You encourage everyone to charge 140....yea thats the ticket ! cmon man! Those kind of comments are what takes other businesses down and now you are saying it outloud? You want everyone to charge 140. so you can broker a cheaper price to the doctors and pull the rug out from under other labs ? Your business model is NOT the same as a regular labs business model ? How can you equally compare the two ? Please try and remember that .

Bob is trying to make a better crown , multicoloring IS the ticket right now ... so why not charge more for that ? At least he is trying to raise the bar . Good on you bob.

We are suppose to be trying to help each other make a better crown for the highest margin possible . Now,Tom i know you might say its not your job to keep other labs in business and profitable , but YOU arent making these crowns are you , your just selling them . Maybe you should explain in more details how your business model runs, I would like to understand your point of view so that when you make comments like that , it wont make me turn my head in disgust .

 

[Tom Moore]

My job if it was possible is to sell work to every dentist on the planet. Most of us pick work up is by taking it from someone already doing it. Nothing wrong with being bench tech I just do not do that any longer but I didn't forget those 35 years.

If I would have been serious would I have put THAT'S THE TICKET on that line.

I remember when a well respected clinician told every lab in his class to go home and go up 15% on their prices and you could do 25% less and make the same money. The tune "nothing from nothing leaves nothing" ran through my head but some of those in attendance did go home and do that. I keep forgetting who may be reading this so in future I will take that into consideration.

 

[ts4341]

Tom is business plan is to ruin the american way of life.. He wants to move all dental labs to mexico and china to save on cheap labor and materials. Then he will market FCZs to the World for $49.. Soon Dr Evil(Tom) & Minnie Me will rule the World. ummmwa haha

 

[corona]

wha? you did put "thats the ticket" on that line . look at your post man , or am i not understanding what you are saying ? Please explain , i am trying trying trying to understand your point of view .

also, what are you trying to get across about living in a fuzzy world ?

 

[Tom Moore]

whoa? you did put "thats the ticket" on that line . look at your post man , or am i not understanding what you are saying ? Please explain , i am trying trying trying to understand your point of view .

also, what are you trying to get across about living in a fuzzy world ?

as you can see I edited that as it was just not necessary to the post and served no purpose other than stirring the pot.

 

[corona]

You live in world that does not exsist. My job if it was possasble is to sell work to every dentist on the planet. The only that most of us pick it up is by taking it from someone alrady doing. If you feel better to live in the non exsistant warm and fuzzy you do so. If I would have been serious would I have put THAT'S THE TICKET on that line.

Holy Moly , I think i am beginning to understand you Tom ,
So your job as you see it is to try to sell work to EVERY dentist on the planet ? . Wow. IF that is so then I dont need to meet you in galveston, There is no way in hell that i can convince you to bring back dental lab jobs to america . We are in the same business but on different poles . I respect your opinions , you are free to say them . A bit different from China huh ? Tom = Darth Vader ?????

 

[Tom Moore]

Tom is business plan is to ruin the american way of life.. He wants to move all dental labs to mexico and china to save on cheap labor and materials. Then he will market FCZs to the World for $49.. Soon Dr Evil(Tom) & Minnie Me will rule the World. ummmwa haha

You on the other hand seem to want your fellow Americans to pay more than the world price for what you do so you can keep your job. Then you can change as little as possible rather than bring a better product to market at a competitive price or retraining to a job not so easily exported. You seem to think you can stop the world from turning when it directly affects you. That's self-indulgent and greedy!

 

[ts4341]

Yes Tom, the greed flows thru my veins... As I drive my 2002 Ford F150 by the dentists mansions on the hill with their Mercedes & BMWs parked in their 4 car garages.. I ate lunch at Subway today, splurging my greedy profits away...

 

[shane williams]

Is $59 a unit to marginate and satin and glaze not enough? What good bench tech could not do 15 a day? If you took the gross from the 15@$59 and took a 1/3 to pay only the labor that would be $6400 a month for a salary from a 20k gross. The other 2/3 should pay for overhead and a healthy profit for the lab and it's owner.

I like the path of least resistance when I'm selling and $99 is so much easier to sell than $140 and if you run a good tight business it possible to be very profitable at $99 even with domestic overhead.

I encourage everyone to charge $140 for a FCZ...yea thats the ticket!

Do you take time to even read a post before spewing out some nonsense? My freeking point is that dr's are seeing $99 FCZ and wanting that price. So what's going to happen is some labs will have to lower that price. Then others will lower theirs to match and so on...These aren't like pfms or gold crowns where you add metal charges, the price is the price. Yeah $50 a crown after outsourcing would be nice, but it doesn't work that way. Labs are having to pay for a $30,000 scanner. And if they are milling then at least another $45-50,000.

Hey all the power to you though if you seem to make it work for $99 then good for you. Question though, why not do it in the US? What would your profit be seeing $99 FCZ?

 

[Tom Moore]

Do you take time to even read a post before spewing out some nonsense? My freeking point is that dr's are seeing $99 FCZ and wanting that price. So what's going to happen is some labs will have to lower that price. Then others will lower theirs to match and so on...These aren't like pfms or gold crowns where you add metal charges, the price is the price. Yeah $50 a crown after outsourcing would be nice, but it doesn't work that way. Labs are having to pay for a $30,000 scanner. And if they are milling then at least another $45-50,000.

Hey all the power to you though if you seem to make it work for $99 then good for you. Question though, why not do it in the US? What would your profit be seeing $99 FCZ?

Maybe that scanner could be paid for with the 13k of gross profit after the $6400 labor costs for that 20k month just doing FCZ in my scenario. Remember the $40 to the miller is already paid. If you are going to sell $99 FCZ you can't do it without volume and with a good $99 FCZ you can get that volume much easier.

My price is based on my costs and profit expectations not yours. All products have different costs and the materials and equipment to make them must be included. I sell almost any lab product you can name and this product is just one.

Doctors want.........I have another rule if I can't make a profit I do not work.