How many CAD FCZ units should you be designing a day?

[tonester]

I'm curious what are your standards for cad design quantity? I'm a ceramist and I jump from bench to bench a day doing porcelain, finishing, waxing, etc. I find cad design very easy considering the manual alternative. I jump in on design every day and I have trained our designers. I can do 30 units in half the day. So i know if it were my sole job that i could do 60-80 in a full day. This makes me think that if it is your sole job you should do at least 50 a day. Especially if you are a higher paid waxer, finisher, etc. that transitioned to this. You have to be very fast to make your wage worth it and the price per design worth it. Someone off the street could produce and make less, but less production is no why we choose to go digital

So, How many units do you require a cad designer to design (mostly FCZ) from 8:00 am -5:00pm a day?

What is an acceptable amount per hour for:
Novice?
Advanced?

If you don't mind I'd like to know wages designers are making and what they're required?

Our designers make a minimum of $20 per hour ( former tech's). How many units do you think at that wage they should produce?

 

[shane williams]

Are they scanning and designing? You can scan like 80-100 units in a 10 hour day(I did 60 from 7-12:30 monday). I've done 50 scanning and designing plus I have to mill them all out, so I'm also running the milling machine. If I had someone scanning everything for me, I'm sure I could get 60-70 designed in 8 hour day. Somewhere around 3-4 min to design a full contour crown. But thats also me spending time milling too.

 

[tonester]

We have a dedicated scanner. But good info for scanning times. Thanks.

I'm talking solely designing.

 

[shane williams]

Well then you could probably get a little more outta someone then. You know, take away bathroom breaks, just put an i.v in their arm and make them wear a diaper.

 

[JohnWilson]

Well then you could probably get a little more outta someone then. You know, take away bathroom breaks, just put an i.v in their arm and make them wear a diaper.

IV AND a diaper damn you spoil your staff!

 

[tonester]

So Shane and i agree if all you do is design that you should do 50 plus units in an 8-5 day.

What do you think is an acceptable # of CAD designs in a day?

What is your record #?

 

[2thm8kr]

IV AND a diaper damn you spoil your staff!

John, upgrade from an old bucket to a diaper and it might
be easier to find some qualified techs.

 

[JohnWilson]

Shoot, I just started buy ass gaskets for the restrooms and here I thought I was the king of the hill.

 

[Al.]

Well then you could probably get a little more outta someone then. You know, take away bathroom breaks, just put an i.v in their arm and make them wear a diaper.

LOL an IV of caffeine

 

[CoolHandLuke]

So Shane and i agree if all you do is design that you should do 50 plus units in an 8-5 day.

What do you think is an acceptable # of CAD designs in a day?

What is your record #?

have you ever tried doing more than say 20 per day ? and lets not dink around, include anterior work here. people spend loads of time with the wax getting a 4 unit case done, and that same technician might spend more time trimming it once its pressed; not subtle trimming either, full on carving.

if you spend 5 minutes on your digital design, you get something that looks like you only spent 5 minutes on it. it's going to cost 25 minutes fixing that oversight.

it may sound excessive but i'd much rather spend 20 minutes on a single unit and have it look great as opposed to merely adequate. this saves the people down the line time, being that they need to press or mill and then stain. that is a job in itself.

multi-unit cases or large span bridges maximum 1 hr.

if this is Coping work, then fine, click OK and generate your cheap and fast mounds of material to clump your crap on later. full anatomy though, no. spend the time. do it right.

in an 8 hr day i would not exceed the following: 30 single assorted posteriors, 20 anteriors, 10 3 unit bridges, or 8 5+unit bridges.

now, granted some cases will be easier than others; certainly some doctors know how to provide you with a quality case. but that is the exception to the rule. most cases when designed on the computer, the technician working down the line (if it isn't you) will have a different idea of the case design. they will want stuff the way they want it and you catch flack if you don't cut it.

if i do 30 units today, i dont want to have to re-do 10 of them tomorrow because the next tech wanted the cusps less rounded or some other crazy sh8.

IF there is to be a lone wolf designer - you gotta do 2 things. communicate with them from the very start, about the aspects you want to see and don't want to see, and 2: trust them once they have proven they can do the job.

it is just not going to work if your final QC eyes and your design staff do not see eye to eye.

 

[tonester]

Thanks for your input CHL. So you would say 30 and above is good.That is what i'm looking for. Honest opinions and numbers that others are doing.

Anteriors and bridgework do take longer. I created our anterior library and the difference i see is, I know what I want as the final product and that makes your design actions quicker, as there is less experimenting or thinking. Creating CEJ's in long pontics, etc and other unique esthetic cad tweaking adds to the time. They prefer to give me all the roundhouses as they feel they are unproductive.

As long as you can grasp the mouse and cad skills, if you've spent your life making full contour crowns ( porcelain or gold) by hand crown, I think you can be very fast. I have noticed that the techs that were faster with hand fabrication that transition to cad are still the faster cad designers.

At our lab we transitioned high paid waxers & finishers to cad and we need to do units fast to make the per crown labor price reasonable.

I can say cad is fun, productive, and can be artistic but from a ceramist point of view it is also a double edge sword. It slowly brings all labs' crown prices similar, and the doctors perception that all lab work now all the same. It also emboldens doctors to buy a cerec because they feel anyone can do it.

Cad/cam has made a huge difference in our lab. I just hope it isn't suicide for our art and industry. We'll see.

 

[shane williams]

I don't think the CAD will be the suicide of our industry, but the ever falling zr prices will!! We go through phases here where we mill wax, and don't mill wax. To me more important than the contour of a wax milled unit, is the the fit. How the margins fit the die, and the cement spacer that isn't thicker in some spots than in others which effects the thickness of your crown. 8-10 min from scan to design for a gold or e-max crown, that usually would take 20-30 min to hand wax, is worth maybe some design flaws(not saying that I do that I've been doing this for awhile so I'm fairly versed at full contour) since that can be adjusted in wax if needed. But like I said before, what I'm more conserned with is fit, and margins. Re-pressing something cuz of messed up margins is a waste of time. Now with what CHL said about someone adjusting cusps, and contour I feel they are going to do that anyway, if I spent 10 min or 20. For some reason porcelain people think they know everything, and everything we do is wrong in their eyes. I don't think I have ever seen a case where a porcelain tech didn't adjust something on an e-max or FCZ. I could even show them before milling or investing and they STILL adjust. That must be the nature of the beast! What Luke says is acurate though, 30 a day is ok. I have to do the amount I do, cuz I'm a one-man-band in a dungeon getting carple tunnel and a difformed hand form clutching a mouse 10 hours a day!! but I wouldn't do anything else!

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Thanks for your input CHL. So you would say 30 and above is good.

my friend i think you'll find i said "i would not exceed 30" etc.

meaning less than 30.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

my friend i think you'll find i said "i would not exceed 30" etc.

meaning less than 30.

this right here is why i looked forward to working with RKM when he offered me the opportunity. the BEST part of working with RKM would have been getting that instant feedback; ive seen his lab and the ceramic station and CAD station are so close to each other it would be a crying shame to not get the instant case feedback from the ceramist. it is amazingly well set-up to get so much done right.

 

[BobCDT]

Depends on the CAM used. the experience of the designer. A qualified designer using 3Shape and a good library, 60 in a day. No problem.
I have posted a 3Shape design that was done with a timer. You can view it in CAP Academy. The full design was 2:48. you can check it our here.
CAP ACADEMY
It's the last video in the drop down box "High Speed 3Shape Design"

 

[rkm rdt]

this right here is why i looked forward to working with RKM when he offered me the opportunity. the BEST part of working with RKM would have been getting that instant feedback; ive seen his lab and the ceramic station and CAD station are so close to each other it would be a crying shame to not get the instant case feedback from the ceramist. it is amazingly well set-up to get so much done right.

Thanks Luke,I'm still working on the other business model we discussed. 2013 is the year of change.