Pourable Acrylic

[Joseph Minuk]

Does anyone use pourable acrylic anymore? Years ago I use to use Pronto for partials and some completes. I found after a short time the denture base would turn a yellowish brown. is there anything new available (pourable) that is more color stable?

 

[TECHARTISAN]

Fricke Hi-I comes in a pourable, and there's lucitone Fas-Por.....both color stable.

 

[Vazone]

Castavaria from Vertex - already 3 years stable

 

[XxJamesAxX]

X2 on Fricke, been using it on partials for years. We prefer not to pour dentures.

 

[AJEL]

I have seen the browning, and Fricke is a quality material but with the Polymethacrylate-tert-Amyl activator it will change. & the Luci99 I have seen that change to orange in 6 mo.
Now I have been using Denplus http://www.denplus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1057_1058&products_id=6 over 15 years, I relined a case from 1997 and after polishing it had no color change and no reline line. I use the same material for pour & reline & repairs it's just technique, & timing. Their material does require 62*c heat to properly cure Dimetharylaate ethylene glycol as the activator has no yellow or brown in it to appear later. The TCS 110V (item # 3655-01 Products Catalog works, it is my backup I have a Whaledent pressure vessel for most use.
Denplus -

 

[JohnWilson]

While we use very little self cure resin we have switched over to Ivoclars Probase cold and its a very free-flowing non clumping of veining and has a very nice polish to it when mixed to ratio. We use the preference shade.

 

[Tom Moore]

We pour almost everything and have done thousands and thousands of cases over many years now with poured acrylic and it has just not been a problem.

 

[DentureDude]

some people still think you cant pour because they tried it 30 years ago and it didn't work out.

im guessing the technology in acrylics and reversible hydrocolloid has not stayed the same?

St. George also makes a good one.

 

[Joseph Minuk]

Today 08:12 PM - permalinkJoseph Minuk
Would anyone have any "experience or comments" of Larell One Step Dentures? This product may be used as an affordable alternative for those edentulous people that can not afford conventional dentures.

 

[denturist-student]

Mr. Minuk...Good to see a fellow denturist here......I am in my second year so am learning lots...I have been told that pourable dentures are really common in BC...When I was in dental tech school here many years ago the technique was introduced to us by a man named Cec Waters who was from Dentsply I think.....We also have a girl in our class who's dad...in BC... uses this technique....There seem to be some advantages one being the cleanliness and detail of the finished processed denture...requires less finsihing.....the only stone used is for the models....No waste as the hydrocoloid is recycled....
You also mentioned some economy dentures? They are relined and presetup in acrylic so you can imagine the problems fitting them....
Have you tried the Ivoclar Trios yet? They are a set of three lowers luted together and placed on mandibular first using the setup jig or by line of sight....Then the maxillary teeth are setup to them....I tried one setup and it was very quick.....from a sample I received from Ivoclar.
I have also heard that there is a lot of interest out here in a functional impression...That is one made with preliminary impressions and then using the cured denture, performing a reline with a tissue conditioner for a few days and then relining them....for the final product....rather than using impression trays and final impressions....Seems to work out good apparently.

I have seen your website...Impressive to say the least....(no am not scouting)...

Take care from a newbie....DS

 

[Joseph Minuk]

DS, good to hear from you. I owned and operated a full service Dental lab. to the
profession before becoming a denturist in 1977. You obvious have had experience
working for dentist (fabricating their dentures) we don't have to go there, that is why
you are studying to be a denturist. I have always enjoyed trying new products, you
never know what you may come up with. Some work out very well, while others end
up in the cupboard...I have a big cupboard!! I will look into the Trios. Thanks for the
tip. Cec Waters, of Dentsply called on me in the 70's I knew him very well, he was a
good man. Thanks for responding and good luck...Joseph

 

[denturist-student]

Thanks for the compliment...No I only took the dental technology course however have maintained some friendships and contacts....I did teach a prostho module at OK college for the DA's there a while back for a week and during that module did up an inlay for one of the students. It was that experience and fascination with the dental labwork which prompted me to leqave a 28 year career working on Instrument landing systems, air navigation systems, and security systems with Nav Canada (formerly Transport Canada) and pursue denturism. I really enjoy working one on one with people and seeing the finished product in place and people actually using something I make....Like yourself I too enjoy researching and looking at different techniques most of which seem to offer little....After practicum I would like to take further training with Ivoclar, Geneva 2000, and some implant as well as the Bego partial dentures courses and then purchase a small office and work independently....however that is my plan for now and may change during practicum....who knows hey? ....feel free to add anything to my postings you wish...we are all here to learn....Thanks again....DS

 

[Tom Moore]

Today 08:12 PM - permalinkJoseph Minuk
Would anyone have any "experience or comments" of Larell One Step Dentures? This product may be used as an affordable alternative for those edentulous people that can not afford conventional dentures.

How much are these template dentures?

I'm curious why when you can get a finished denture from offshore done by well trained technicians for less than $80 in about a week would there be much of a need for a one size fits all denture made from a template?

I would like to know what the cost of the denture blank and the cost of the labor to get it in a patient's mouth and out the door would be.

 

[TECHARTISAN]

How much are these template dentures?

I'm curious why when you can get a finished denture from offshore done by well trained technicians for less than $80 in about a week would there be much of a need for a one size fits all denture made from a template?

I would like to know what the cost of the denture blank and the cost of the labor to get it in a patient's mouth and out the door would be.

From one step denture thread

" The Larell denture templates are sold at a cost of $175.oo an arch. This translates to a cost of 360.00 per set including reline materials.

Initially my thought on the "5 (moderately adjustable) sizes fits most" concept was that if it was cheap enough I could see it being of use to relief workers....think Haiti, Katrina, Fukushima etc....or even general redcross 3rd world scenarios. But that was really the only use I could see....definitely not at that price.

American Tooth Industries has a product, Justi Imperial Waxed teeth. They are a set of anterior teeth, or two groups of posterior teeth shipped "prewaxed"....quick setups and adjustability being the idea behind them. Each "card" is about $20.

If this "one step" was similarly priced, say $50 an arch.... maybe.... but given that pricing their "template" is more expensive than an Affordable Dentures Economy set. I just cant see any real use for this product.

 

[ninergs]

I have been using the pour method for over 25 years if you adhere to every procedure and instrutions to the tee you will be amazed at the results you can get, cost savings and time savings are huge. I have troubleshot every problem anyone can come up with and give you the exact way to pour to get great results. Packing is a thing of the past and not cost effective in todays denture market with most Doctors looking at cost cutting measures at every turn. There are other great processing methods if you can get the Doctors to pay for the added costs, if they are not willing to pay extra for better methods why should you as a lab pay for the best equipment at top dollar costs.

 

[jobu]

I've used Palapress pour-able acrylic for years on literally thousands of cases in a large production lab. We never had any problems with it. Its color stable and easy to use. I used it with putty matrices so I had little waste and predictable results.

 

[denturist-student]

I have heard that Hydrocolloid based investments and pouring are big in British Columbia. While it may be a good and clean way to invest, I would do some research into it first. I have heard via my instructors about the turning orange...of course the quick fix for that is a rebase which is relatively easy under the reversible hydrocolloid investment. However the underlying disadvantage with that system is the lowered strength of the acrylic. We did our practice splints for implants out of the reversible hydrocoloid and pourable using ortho monomer and clear acrylic polymer. They turned out very nice with minimal work to finish them. I am now four weeks into my practicum and enjoy the opportunity to be in a clinic experience. It is a valuable gift to receive mentoring such as Ia m given right now. However were I to open up a lab from scratch I would definitely consider pourables because of the accuracy of the investing and quality of reproduction of the wax matrix....Also nice with that method is that the wax matrix which holds the teeth in place can be saved because it is not boiled away as it is in gypsum invested methods..a blessing if it doesn't work out. A lady in our class whose father runs a denture clinic in BC said that there were no problems such as shifted teeth or open bites so long as it is done in a timely manner.
But the biggest advantage is the double using of the hydrocolloid conditioner which can be used to duplicate models for partials in preparation for waxing up the framework. While I know that doing ones own frameworks seems counter-productive at times for clinicians, in my mindset anyway it takes the same amount of time for me to add the major and minor connectors onto a refractory model than to draw all the components on it for a prescription.....So why bother...just make the refractory cast and do the waxup....take care gentlemen...always something new to learn.

 

[AJEL]

I would do some research into it first. I have heard via my instructors about the turning orange...of course the quick fix for that is a rebase which is relatively easy under the reversible hydrocolloid investment. However the underlying disadvantage with that system is the lowered strength of the acrylic.

As tends to be the case, the instructors are a little out of date. I have fluid resin dentures that have remained color stable over 15 years (Luci 199 cannot say that). Using a Canadian material Denplus. Strength except for some of the injection (& not all of them I put my work easily against any Sucess case) systems is a match if not superior as long as technique is followed. For allergy or extra strength I go with Vinyl or Nylon. May of this year 2012 I relined a upper overdenture I originally made in 1998, there was no color line after polishing & the 4 locators were holding well with no cracks around them.
I would say that U do need to watch your hydrocoloid for # of breakdowns in length of time to maintain quality, & the teeth must not be slopy with wax, extra care in keeping things exactly right is required.

 

[denturist-student]

I don't think the instructors are out of date...I can only say what I have heard in conversation...and not really in significance to take any notes on it that orange denture bases were more likely with the pour type resins. At the same time I have also heard that the newer resins were much more color stable. But I do find a lot of information you have posted her Mr. Ajel and welcome any clarification and experience you may offer. Myself, I can foresee me using the pour type resins. I like the idea that the models are kept moist and the wax matrix is intact rather than boiling out. As you say, with any process, technique has to be followed carefully. I do have a question for you though. I have heard more than once that the old vulcanite dentures kept the residual ridges in better condition than pmma does. Would appreciate some verification or comment on this....Wondering what type of material could do this today? Perhaps a valplast or something like that? As a future clinician I am interested in anything which will save the residual ridge....especially the lower ones....I am still virginal at all of this ha ha ha....and perhaps at the ripe old age of sixty am crazy for entering the wilderness of denturism but am so far finding it fascinating.....I can only hope to maintain a level of experience and education like yours....well not even close but can always try.....Thanks so much for clarification....60 year old beginner....

 

[denturist-student]

Mr. Minuk I have only read about a few one step denture processes. We have had a fellow student here in Alberta who has observed one insertion using Avadent dentures. I would be concerned naturally of achieving an accurate bite in one appointment. I am slowly becoming more and more confident in the techniques I learned at school. I am learning that there is credence to the so called overkill. Perhaps it is a confidence thing or a psychological relationship between the patient and clinician in achieving a successful bite registration. I have learned that relaxation of the patient is far more accurate than an anxious patient when making the registrations. Because I respect your experience in the subject I would ask you one question.....and will appreciate your input....Do you think that psychologically, a patient can be relaxed enough to make an accurate registration in one single appointment? Or do you think that several appointments are necessary for a patient clinician relationship to favor success at bite registration?...thanks in advance....from a 60 year old beginner....ha ha ha.