PC Desktop configuration and CAM software advice (for Roland DWX-50)

[Razvan]

Hello,

I have the complete CAD/CAM system (DentalWings and Roland DWX-50 milling machine),but I did not purchase the CAM software and the desktop unit for it. As per CAM software I will probably buy the hyperDENT or Sum3D, still to decide in the next week. From your experince with CAM software what hardaware will work fine for it?

I want to purchase this desktop PC configuration:

PC Computer i7 950 4Kerne+4Kerne HT, Turbo bis 3.33 GHz - MSI X58 - NVIDIA Geforce GTX 750 TI 2 GB DDR5 - 1TB HDD - 8GB DDR3-1600 - Win7 Prof. 64 - DVD RW - 8x USB2.0 - eSATA - Firewire - GBit LAN

Will it work fine? Please recommend and/or compare with your CAM system as I am a complete newbie. THANKS!

 

[zero_zero]

For that config might want to add some high end games too, to utilize all the horse power under the hood.... Unless you're a high volume operation a few minutes difference in calculation time wont matter IMO (read: a more modest setup should work just fine)...and will not affect machining time . Since you're shopping around for CAM, I'd check out WorkNC as well...

 

[Sevan P]

Call CAP for the Sum3D for the Roland, it will come with a PC build to run it. But like Zero said, high end game PC, i7 quad 3.6ghz, 16GB ram and at least a 745GTX nvidia card, that's my D2000 scanner PC build and it ran Sum3D flawlessly while I demod it. Super fast camming and smooth movments on the playback after cammed.

I want to purchase this desktop PC configuration:

PC Computer i7 950 4Kerne+4Kerne HT, Turbo bis 3.33 GHz - MSI X58 - NVIDIA Geforce GTX 750 TI 2 GB DDR5 - 1TB HDD - 8GB DDR3-1600 - Win7 Prof. 64 - DVD RW - 8x USB2.0 - eSATA - Firewire - GBit LAN

Will it work fine? Please recommend and/or compare with your CAM system as I am a complete newbie. THANKS!

That might work, the only thing im iffy about is the CPU. but doable.

 

[Torquadon]

I believe it would be better if you went for workstation rather than pc. We are using Mayka dental now, previously we were using SUM3D, way more happy with Mayka.

 

[Razvan]

I believe it would be better if you went for workstation rather than pc. We are using Mayka dental now, previously we were using SUM3D, way more happy with Mayka.

Can you please detail why you quit Sum3D and went for Mayka?

I'm more or less decided towards Sum3D as I have seen it is very popular and has good feedback with DWX-50. I'm interested also in the post-sale support. I have little knowledge of CAM softwares and I want to make sure I buy the most friendly user and supportive one for my milling machine. (I had some hard time for eg. with DentalWings for the CAD system few years ago, now they improved quite a lot)

 

[Boozy woozy]

Hi zero , do you use worknc ? I've been offered this cam software and I'd like to know how good a software it is? If you could highlight it's strengths?

 

[Torquadon]

Can you please detail why you quit Sum3D and went for Mayka?

I'm more or less decided towards Sum3D as I have seen it is very popular and has good feedback with DWX-50. I'm interested also in the post-sale support. I have little knowledge of CAM softwares and I want to make sure I buy the most friendly user and supportive one for my milling machine. (I had some hard time for eg. with DentalWings for the CAD system few years ago, now they improved quite a lot)

At first let me just say that we resign from Sum3D some time ago, so last version I had was 2013, it is possible it is different now:

1. Automatic nesting which Sum3D does only by separating all the units, and if you have to position them manually to save space on disk it is waste of time. You would think it is irrelevant, but when you milling 30-60 units a day it is annoying.
2. Repositioning connectors with mouse which again Sum3D did only in a very limited way. Same think as above it is waste of time.
3. Way easier and more user friendly interface, software is simpler to use for most people. It didn't matter to me personally, but since we have Mayka, people in the lab are not afraid to play with CAM software.
4. Adjusting, or adding your own strategies. Now this is something which Mayka does so much better, practically everyone can do it, and with Sum3D it was overcomplicated for what you need in dental lab.
5. Because strategies are so much easier to adjust we practically eliminated any bur braking on our Rolland.

We did not buy software just for Rolland, we got it with Yenadent machine, but they had postprocessor for DWX-50 and since we tried it we never even thought about going back. I am aware it is not exactly objective advise as software usually feels different depending on person using it but for our needs Mayka seems to work much better.

About support, please remember that most resellers do not work in commercial lab enviroment and quite often they do not understand problems you have. I am yet to find company in digital dentistry with support I will be satisfied with. So far it has been like this: 10% of my issues with software they solve, 90% I find my way around the problem.

 

[goku_zirconia]

Empire Direct came out with their own CAM software called UniqueCAM. They let me tinker around on it at their office in Placenta, CA.

I actually like it. I used to use SUM3D and a few other CAM softwares and UniqueCAM seems to be intuitive and user friendly with lots of control.

We are getting that with a new Roland we just purchased from Empire so I will know soon if there are any drawbacks that stick out too much.

 

[Razvan]

Thanks... so I got my PC ready to use and still shopping for the most convenient price/use CAM software... I bought Windows 10 licence (hope there are no issues with this new version and CAM softwares)...

I have sent requests for hyperDENT, Sum3D, Mayka, workNC and DS-Cam... did anyone experience DS-Cam? I found little information... I want to make sure I make the right decision... as a Roland user and a small lab, price is very important also... if you can recommend a good dealer or if anyone who is reading this topic has a CAM software for sale please contact me!... I'm also interested in milling burs for Roland if anyone can make suggestions...

 

[MikeW]

At first let me just say that we resign from Sum3D some time ago, so last version I had was 2013, it is possible it is different now:

1. Automatic nesting which Sum3D does only by separating all the units, and if you have to position them manually to save space on disk it is waste of time. You would think it is irrelevant, but when you milling 30-60 units a day it is annoying.
2. Repositioning connectors with mouse which again Sum3D did only in a very limited way. Same think as above it is waste of time.
3. Way easier and more user friendly interface, software is simpler to use for most people. It didn't matter to me personally, but since we have Mayka, people in the lab are not afraid to play with CAM software.
4. Adjusting, or adding your own strategies. Now this is something which Mayka does so much better, practically everyone can do it, and with Sum3D it was overcomplicated for what you need in dental lab.
5. Because strategies are so much easier to adjust we practically eliminated any bur braking on our Rolland.

We did not buy software just for Rolland, we got it with Yenadent machine, but they had postprocessor for DWX-50 and since we tried it we never even thought about going back. I am aware it is not exactly objective advise as software usually feels different depending on person using it but for our needs Mayka seems to work much better.

About support, please remember that most resellers do not work in commercial lab enviroment and quite often they do not understand problems you have. I am yet to find company in digital dentistry with support I will be satisfied with. So far it has been like this: 10% of my issues with software they solve, 90% I find my way around the problem.

Thanks... so I got my PC ready to use and still shopping for the most convenient price/use CAM software... I bought Windows 10 licence (hope there are no issues with this new version and CAM softwares)...

I have sent requests for hyperDENT, Sum3D, Mayka, workNC and DS-Cam... did anyone experience DS-Cam? I found little information... I want to make sure I make the right decision... as a Roland user and a small lab, price is very important also... if you can recommend a good dealer or if anyone who is reading this topic has a CAM software for sale please contact me!... I'm also interested in milling burs for Roland if anyone can make suggestions...

@Torquadon sorry to hear you had some of these issues. I'm happy to say that there have been many improvements since you've left. I'll reply to your issues point by point:
1. We have Overnesting which allows for an automatic overlap of your part borders by whatever value the user can specify. For the bulk nester - this can definitely save you time.
2. If you spent most of your time re-positioning connectors int he past, there is an option for those who want full control to be able to disable the automatic connectors. It can be helpful to have on mostly for users that are new to CAM. Although we realize placing support pins automatically will inevitably end up on an inter-proximal contact, this is usually offset by the removal of the support pin after the milling is complete.
We've also released Millbox as an add-on for SUM3D users or as a Stand-Alone interface this year which very much simplifies the CAM workflow when nesting which would address your stated needs - You can now drag and drop to re-position support pins or objects and even dynamically link objects to one another.
3. In late 2013 & 2014 we made quite a few changes to the interface and added the workflow wizard to guide you through the CAM process. This was available in the Medium level of interface or lower (As you may know we have 5 various levels that you can select from based on the user's aptitude from beginners to experts in the CAM). Millbox again addresses this by further simplifying the interface into a touch-friendly seamless nesting experience.
4. SUM3D strategies can be either vary simple or complex depending on what you're trying to do. It's very flexible in this regard and having the proper training / documentation is key to making a change. We've also since made numerous optimizations to the system with 64 Bit and Multi-Core processing speeding up the system as well as launching the mono-strategy which allows the user to manage all speeds / feeds & step downs/overs in one area (Tool Library) without even having to open the strategy.
5. We've found that a large majority of tool breakages occur when something in the system is changed (ie: switching from oem provided tool manufacturer) or its even possible that the strategy that you had in the past may have been too aggressive. Either way, things we could have addressed.

@Razvan I'd encourage you to try a free 30-day trial of our software with any of our re-sellers and I think you'll see why we are the preferred choice when it comes to simplicity and reliability. If you have any questions about the CAM or would like to see more, feel free to PM me.

-MW

 

[KentPWalton]

Get a computer with 8 cores and hyperthread them for faster calculations.

 

[Torquadon]

@Torquadon sorry to hear you had some of these issues. I'm happy to say that there have been many improvements since you've left. I'll reply to your issues point by point:
1. We have Overnesting which allows for an automatic overlap of your part borders by whatever value the user can specify. For the bulk nester - this can definitely save you time.
2. If you spent most of your time re-positioning connectors int he past, there is an option for those who want full control to be able to disable the automatic connectors. It can be helpful to have on mostly for users that are new to CAM. Although we realize placing support pins automatically will inevitably end up on an inter-proximal contact, this is usually offset by the removal of the support pin after the milling is complete.
We've also released Millbox as an add-on for SUM3D users or as a Stand-Alone interface this year which very much simplifies the CAM workflow when nesting which would address your stated needs - You can now drag and drop to re-position support pins or objects and even dynamically link objects to one another.
3. In late 2013 & 2014 we made quite a few changes to the interface and added the workflow wizard to guide you through the CAM process. This was available in the Medium level of interface or lower (As you may know we have 5 various levels that you can select from based on the user's aptitude from beginners to experts in the CAM). Millbox again addresses this by further simplifying the interface into a touch-friendly seamless nesting experience.
4. SUM3D strategies can be either vary simple or complex depending on what you're trying to do. It's very flexible in this regard and having the proper training / documentation is key to making a change. We've also since made numerous optimizations to the system with 64 Bit and Multi-Core processing speeding up the system as well as launching the mono-strategy which allows the user to manage all speeds / feeds & step downs/overs in one area (Tool Library) without even having to open the strategy.
5. We've found that a large majority of tool breakages occur when something in the system is changed (ie: switching from oem provided tool manufacturer) or its even possible that the strategy that you had in the past may have been too aggressive. Either way, things we could have addressed.

@Razvan I'd encourage you to try a free 30-day trial of our software with any of our re-sellers and I think you'll see why we are the preferred choice when it comes to simplicity and reliability. If you have any questions about the CAM or would like to see more, feel free to PM me.

-MW

I do not want to get into long, and at this time pointless discussion, because we have change the software and there is no way we are going back, mostly because Mayka offers free updates, but I will address few things:
1 - that is good, I can see in Update notes you added it 2 months ago, funny enough last time I talked to one of you during dental exhibition in Germany (I believe this or previous year),you said it is not useful feature.
2 - it is as I said, you cannot reposition them with mouse.
4 - I was never putting in doubt Sum3D capabilities, I know it is advance CAM platform, I just pointed it is overcomplicated for average user.
5 - One of the reasons we choose open CAM software is, so we can choose any manufacturer we want, I am aware I need to modify strategies after I change tools. And unfortunately you refused to address this issues, and this was one of the main reason we have left. What happen was, we use to brake few tools a week during wax milling. When we asked for help one of the guys in Italy, he said he can't help because we purchased software from Rolland reseller, and our reseller could not help because he didn't have experience in milling wax. So you can imagine we were quite unhappy abut this.

No more complaining