Origin Intelligence (assessment)

TheLabGuy

TheLabGuy

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Paul, I could see your reasoning behind Al not getting a scanner because of his waxing skills and the time to wax a full contour is almost the same for scanning/designing it. HOWEVER...Al does a lot of implant cases, especially large ones, and not having to do UCLA cast abutments on all his work would be a tremendous benefit, not including the divergence issues associated with those implant monstrosities as well. If BruxZir begins to take off as it has slowly (very similar to what e.max did) then he'll be behind the eight ball. If I was a small lab I'd be at the very least, looking into this technology and finding out what, if any scanner suits my fancy, what my milling center can continue to provide, and the turn around times.
 
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MasterCeramist

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Great thread, this scanner caught my eye at lab day as well. I beleieve they say it can but has anyone tried impression scanning with it ? If so how did it go ?
 
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ROB yes that is all true, for custom abutments it would be handy.

One thing thats letting the cad/cam side down for implant frames still at the minute is the lack of choice when it comes to metals.

Not sure if everyone will agree but the laser sintereted stuff is junk so thats out.

For milling we have chrome cobolt (which alot of docs have issues with when it comes to using over implants)

Or titanium which means changing to a new ceramic of which there is still limited choice for titanium.

Again im still seeing and hearing alot of variable results when it comes to fit with cad/cam metal frames.
 
CoolHandLuke

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i've seen this tread before, and wanted to reply but i never had enough nerve; i just want to throw in my experiences for your consideration.

i used to work in a sheet metal factory. we regularly punched holes and squeezed hardware into millions of sheets of metal of every shape and size you could imagine. during my time there we did some "template" work using sheet acrylic. for a 1" hole we punched a 1.01" hole. acrylic shrinks especially under heat. not as much as zirconia but shrinks nonetheless.

given that knowledge i was able to solve the issues we were having here at the dental lab; our doctors were very unhappy with our PMMA temps; before i arrived they were always tight fitting and had open margins after milling even though the design was spot-on. the trouble was that we were not factoring in the acrylic shrinkage. how we solved the issue was not easy or pretty; because the shrinkage of acryllic is dependent on the cut size and the remaining thickness, we simply threw on a ton of diespacer in the settings for our scanner, loaded the die with clumpy tinactin, and made the margin a lot lower than it should have been (anyone familiar with CAD knows that a LOT lower means about .001mm -.003mm below actual line).

now our temps are hit and miss, as opposed to all misses and no good ones.

let me give you the name of a publication i subscribe to: Journal of Applied Polymer Science - Wiley Online Library

and for good measure a pdf from a material distributor that highlights PMMA: http://www.steinwall.com/PDF/C-Acrylic.pdf


the Origin scanner seems pretty half done. doesnt come with abutment design software? why pay so much for just c+b work if theres no "features" in the software that will let you push the boundary ? everyone and his brother can make crowns. i doubt it would happen but i can see if my boss would permit a "trial period" use of this software to see how else it can be used.
 
harmonylab

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Emax Cad

alh6.googleusercontent.com__SC7ue4UwF4Q_Tk0etjweq2I_AAAAAAAAF2f9c04d7b03276394f693f4f6b4f77dd0.png

alh6.googleusercontent.com__5mYCqG2_1EE_Tk0ewMUYayI_AAAAAAAAF2e791ce81d2bf69b48b590188be8b9069.png

alh4.googleusercontent.com__k7WcSnWSV1g_Tk0eyQatcDI_AAAAAAAAF2Q_LqoOFvuTVdM_s1024_Emax_252520Cad.PNG

alh4.googleusercontent.com__W1dLmVi3s0w_Tk3CHXW1C9I_AAAAAAAAF8s_APK3aIyXk4E_s576_IMG_2230.jpg

alh5.googleusercontent.com__nbSKNPiD4lA_Tk3CJdTOhNI_AAAAAAAAF9A_hZUPme0S_2I_s912_IMG_2233.jpg

alh5.googleusercontent.com__KiGsiNekMEE_Tk3CMeharQI_AAAAAAAAF9U_thTciQwnX1U_s912_IMG_2235.jpg

alh6.googleusercontent.com__ZYPAWDxgYoM_Tk3CNZmbSOI_AAAAAAAAF9g_xLILjbIdswU_s912_IMG_2236.jpg

alh4.googleusercontent.com__HpfUjhv1HxY_Tk3COaXdLrI_AAAAAAAAF9o_jEqKC5vhVUc_s912_IMG_2237.jpg

I had to do some slight adjustments on the inside around the occlusal table of the prep area. Other than that it went pretty good. The margin seated down the rest of the way. I still feel like some detail is not being translated to the restoration by the mill. Occlusion and spill ways seem less detailed. Still not too bad. I was surprised at the shorter Crystallization firing in my EP5000 since the software update. 24 minutes. Not bad at all. Been 3 years I guess since i tried it last. Took much longer then.

um.. is that thing not fully seated, or is the margin that poor?
alh6.googleusercontent.com__SC7ue4UwF4Q_Tk0etjweq2I_AAAAAAAAF2f9c04d7b03276394f693f4f6b4f77dd0.png alh6.googleusercontent.com__5mYCqG2_1EE_Tk0ewMUYayI_AAAAAAAAF2e791ce81d2bf69b48b590188be8b9069.png alh4.googleusercontent.com__k7WcSnWSV1g_Tk0eyQatcDI_AAAAAAAAF2Q_LqoOFvuTVdM_s1024_Emax_252520Cad.PNG alh4.googleusercontent.com__W1dLmVi3s0w_Tk3CHXW1C9I_AAAAAAAAF8s_APK3aIyXk4E_s576_IMG_2230.jpg alh5.googleusercontent.com__nbSKNPiD4lA_Tk3CJdTOhNI_AAAAAAAAF9A_hZUPme0S_2I_s912_IMG_2233.jpg alh5.googleusercontent.com__KiGsiNekMEE_Tk3CMeharQI_AAAAAAAAF9U_thTciQwnX1U_s912_IMG_2235.jpg alh6.googleusercontent.com__ZYPAWDxgYoM_Tk3CNZmbSOI_AAAAAAAAF9g_xLILjbIdswU_s912_IMG_2236.jpg alh4.googleusercontent.com__HpfUjhv1HxY_Tk3COaXdLrI_AAAAAAAAF9o_jEqKC5vhVUc_s912_IMG_2237.jpg
 
NicelyMKV

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Harmony, those photos were before I adjusted inside. I showed the prep as well to show the sharp corners on the occlusal area. I went inside and adjusted around that area and the restoration seated completely. I feel like it would fit very well if the preps were without sharp angles. The mills just can't capture that small detail.
 
dmonwaxa

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@NicelyMKV

I see no photos in your posts, what gives?
 
NicelyMKV

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Dmonwaxa, I see them? Not sure why you can not. I checked back on pg 2 and they r all visible to me.
 
dmonwaxa

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NicelyMKV, I did the same thing; No pics on page 2 either. However Rob's photos on pg1 shows up .
 
TheLabGuy

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Rob is just cooler...HA!!!!
 
dmonwaxa

dmonwaxa

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Shoosh!!! Calm down big boy.
 
NicelyMKV

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Did you ever read the emperors new cloths?

Thats weird. I can see all the photos I posted on the forum. Strange.....
 
TheLabGuy

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Did you ever read the emperors new cloths?

Thats weird. I can see all the photos I posted on the forum. Strange.....

I can too...I think it's his browser, but then again...rookies!!! :D
 
harmonylab

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Harmony, those photos were before I adjusted inside. I showed the prep as well to show the sharp corners on the occlusal area. I went inside and adjusted around that area and the restoration seated completely. I feel like it would fit very well if the preps were without sharp angles. The mills just can't capture that small detail.

ahh. it would've been nice to see it fully seated. B&D sent us samples of zirconia and titanium copings, and the fit was surprisingly good. Of course, these were on smooth, nicely prepped margins. It'd be nice to know how it fits on poorly prepped margins.
 
NicelyMKV

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I have a 5 unit NP bridge with 3 abutment teeth due back tomorrow. I will post fits.
 
mdli04

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Great thread, been looking at this scanner for awhile. How do the Buxzir come back, finished or ready for stain and glaze? What are the prices? Do they tack on any hidden fees anywhere? Thanks!
 

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