NT trading bases/settings

[JohnWilson]

So we have such great success with this system on ZI but for some reason when we mill PMMA we are having horrible fits to the base, very tight to the point where I have to grind in and reline for a provisional. I can't see a way to modify spacer on this part in the 3shape control panel, is there a way to hack the DME modify this?

Obviously I can scan the base as a prep and control it this way but this defeats the precision of having things digitized perfectly.

I would also like to be able to increase spacer on certain two connect cases as well, any work around guys?

 

[ParkwayDental]

John is your machine set up to use a different set of tools for pmma compared to zirconia?

 

[JohnWilson]

John is your machine set up to use a different set of tools for pmma compared to zirconia?

Tyler yes it has a dedicated set for PMMA but they are the same tools

 

[ParkwayDental]

That is probably the factor I don't know why, when I mill pmma with dedicated tools for the material it comes out like garbage. If you have time just for a test nest it and mill it with your zirconia tools I bet it will come out a lot different.

On my Origin machines, when milling a hybrid abutment I use an additional tool that is actually a metal tool it is a 1mm flat tip bur that will mill on the inside of the abutment.

 

[cadfan]

Try to make an offset inside ( smoth strategie maybe 0,05 more millig than normal ) and or single tooth burs and or second time mill inside.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

I was gonna say change your shrinking ratio in your strategy, but I am guessing your PMMA strategies don't allow for that, which makes sense. So tell the machine your milling zirconia. Create a zirconia strategy but change the tools to your PMMA tool numbers and adjust the shrinkage percentage from 20ish% to .05ish% and try to dial it in. Of course this is assuming your using a software that allows for custom strats...

 

[zero_zero]

Send me that DME...time permitting I'll give a try... I've already cracked a few open (213467_at_gmail_dot_com)

 

[Sevan P]

but they are the same tools

This could be your issue john, I had tight fits on my PMMA crowns using the same burs as ZR then I tried the VHF burs for wax/plastic and BOOM same setting now were way to loose, I had to drop them down in 3shape. Bur flex was the issue. I know run Sierra Razor Sharp burs for all my wax/PMMA and man those burs cut smoooooooth and last forever! I doubt it is the cam. Try bur intended for pmma and you will see a difference. At $50.00 a bur they are amazing!

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

This could be your issue john, I had tight fits on my PMMA crowns using the same burs as ZR then I tried the VHF burs for wax/plastic and BOOM same setting now were way to loose, I had to drop them down in 3shape. Bur flex was the issue. I know run Sierra Razor Sharp burs for all my wax/PMMA and man those burs cut smoooooooth and last forever! I doubt it is the cam. Try bur intended for pmma and you will see a difference. At $50.00 a bur they are amazing!

Bur Flex? Considering the spindle speed and feed rate, I don't imagine a bur even has the time to flex. If that is so, you could increase the spindle speed and slow the feed rate, problem solved?

 

[Sevan P]

The right burs make all the difference, especially when cutting PMMA. Altering the feed rate and speed might make a slight difference but burs design to cut ZR really work well on ZR only and maybe wax, cause wax is so soft. ZR burs do not cut well on PMMA, yeah it will cut it but then end up with tight fits, trust me I went through this issue a few months ago.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

The right burs make all the difference, especially when cutting PMMA. Altering the feed rate and speed might make a slight difference but burs design to cut ZR really work well on ZR only and maybe wax, cause wax is so soft. ZR burs do not cut well on PMMA, yeah it will cut it but then end up with tight fits, trust me I went through this issue a few months ago.

Did you try out a lot of burs and count their hours? I remember working with the 340i. After months and months we finally found a set of Zirc burs that would mill twice as long as the manufacturer specified. I forget who made them otherwise I would share. But they were said to cut 200 units. I would be over 400 units before the margin offsets started to chip. The price was just right too. We could afford to play around and break burs....

 

[Sevan P]

Did you try out a lot of burs and count their hours? I remember working with the 340i. After months and months we finally found a set of Zirc burs that would mill twice as long as the manufacturer specified. I forget who made them otherwise I would share. But they were said to cut 200 units. I would be over 400 units before the margin offsets started to chip. The price was just right too. We could afford to play around and break burs....

When I was working on the 340i yes, we tried many different burs MFG's and in the end the burs that SageMax sells for the 340i were the highest counting burs, 2.5mm ran as high as 1900 units. And the 1mm got as high as 900 never could get it past 900 units. But for PMMA on the VHF mill Sierra Razor sharps are ridiculously great cutting burs design especially for PMMA.

 

[JohnWilson]

I wish it was as simple as the right bur, not negating what yu guys are saying its just that my temps come out looking polished, Very smooth sharp secondary anatomy with the feedrate/rpm I am using. I just want to be able to dial in the built in variance that the library has.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

I wish it was as simple as the right bur, not negating what yu guys are saying its just that my temps come out looking polished, Very smooth sharp secondary anatomy with the feedrate/rpm I am using. I just want to be able to dial in the built in variance that the library has.

John, I just had one of our docs call me and inquire about 18,19,20 Screw Retained Full Zirconia crowns on NB RP Wp, I am going to send them to you if he sends them to me.

 

[JohnWilson]

John, I just had one of our docs call me and inquire about 18,19,20 Screw Retained Full Zirconia crowns on NB RP Wp, I am going to send them to you if he sends them to me.

Sounds good, happy to help you out.

 

[Sevan P]

I wish it was as simple as the right bur, not negating what yu guys are saying its just that my temps come out looking polished, Very smooth sharp secondary anatomy with the feedrate/rpm I am using. I just want to be able to dial in the built in variance that the library has.

So does the NT Trading library have setting that can be adjusted?

 

[JohnWilson]

So does the NT Trading library have setting that can be adjusted?

Nothing that I can find with out modifying the DME, I am working or more like mucking about with things trying to learn how the code is written to teach myself what changes I can make.


However I want to talk to guys using the library ON PMMA and hear if perhaps I am doing something wrong on the CAM side or if the bases actually ever fit correctly.

 

[Affinity]

I havent gotten a NT trading or medentika based ZR hybrid that fits yet. They are all too tight. Never tried PMMA tho.

 

[zero_zero]

Nothing that I can find with out modifying the DME, I am working or more like mucking about with things trying to learn how the code is written to teach myself what changes I can make.
....

You need to know some x86 assembly to understand how the code is written and what's going on behind the shiny UI...
Hint: DME files are actually ZIP files with a renamed extension...

 

[Sevan P]

Nothing that I can find with out modifying the DME, I am working or more like mucking about with things trying to learn how the code is written to teach myself what changes I can make.


However I want to talk to guys using the library ON PMMA and hear if perhaps I am doing something wrong on the CAM side or if the bases actually ever fit correctly.

John

On my EZ Mill and Master Mill there is a slider for abutment.

on my v1.0.30 cam software for the EZ mill it is called Oversize of abutment fits 0 to -25

and on my Master Mill v5.6.35 Cam Software I have Oversize sliders for:

Cavity -0.100mm to 0.100mm
Drillings -0.100mm to 0.100mm
Model Fitting -0.100mm to 0.100mm

And I can make each slider different for all the different materials, so my ZR drillings can be .005 while my PMMA Drillings are .010. Does the Weiland software have anything like this in the Settings? I learned the hard way took me at least 5-6 tries to get my ZR dialed in and still in 3Shape I had to increase the screw hole size by .04 when I was milling my ZR abutments on the EZ Mill, cause my interface would fit great but the screw hole would be too small and I would have to grind it open before I cemented the interface. But on my Master mill v5 software I don't have to increase the screw hole size in 3shape anymore, I just dialed my CAM Drillings setting and I get great fit on my Glidewell Library and the screw drops all the way through.