Mouthguard lamination

[Betalab]

I would like to get opinions and ideas and techniques for a reliable sports mouthguard lamination.these days kids and players like the graphics to support teams or their fetish or whatever. Likewise in more competitive circles the need for A grade protection is warranted.
Sometimes when I try to laminate a mouthguard it just doesn't want to play. It's like some has smeared lube between the two layers and there is no bond at all.
These are some of the things we have narrowed down
1 fresh mouthguard blanks.
2 same manufacturer for base and laminate.
3 heating to the point of nearly being lava.
4 increased forming pressure.
5 heating the base form as well as the laminate.
6 using degreasing agent.
7 using heat gun on model and guard to be laminated.
Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated or if anyone knows the recipe for 100% success in sticking two bits of mouthguard material together I would greatly appreciate your answer. Oh and while we are at it any tips on reducing those pesky little bubbles that always manage to make it to the labial obvious area grrrr!
Australia has a lot to catch up on with wild graphic mouthguard designs and look forward to the replies..... Thanks in advance
Patrick

 

[maxi]

Are you using a vacuum machine or a pressure machine . We use a pressure machine and run it at 3 bar and don't any problems with de-lamination .as for the bubbles . Prick small holes through your first layer with a very fine rose head bur after it has been formed , in the areas where they tend to form ie palatal of incisors this allows any air to escape as the 2nd laminate is formed. We use a ministar machine , we found that by flipping the lid over very fast after the timer is up also eliminates the bubbles. Hope I have explained it ok.

 

[Betalab]

Do you do all the other things I mention as well, to the point of having the clear lamination nearly at lava point? We use pressure machine as well and have experimented anywhere between 2 to 5 bar which started cracking models through the guts
I like the idea of drilling small holes and will try this .
What or who's materials ( brand name) do you use over there?

 

[maxi]

The holes are not drilled ,but rather pierced . The clear we let heat at the setting given by the manufacturer , so it does not over heat. We use a 2 mm clear from Halas the scheu bioplast and the colour is from Erkodent . We also use colours from other manufactures ( not sure where the boss gets them from ) . So they are not from the same manufacturer . After handeling the formed colour guard (making holes) we just stem clean it , fix the name or picture with Sellotape and laminate . We don't do any of the points you have mentioned except fresh blanks .Not sure if we are doing it right.
Just a small story . We have a young kid as a patient who plays basket ball and kept gagging with his guard in , this is two seasons now. So what we did for him was extend the mouth guard as deep into the labial and buccal sulcus as we could and only cover the occlusal aspects . The palate was left open . He is now a happy patient enjoying his game

 

[maxi]

Hi Patrik.
One thing with the small holes is that when you do a clear mouthguard you can see the piercing holes , look like little channels through the mouthguards.

 

[Betalab]

The holes are not drilled ,but rather pierced . The clear we let heat at the setting given by the manufacturer , so it does not over heat. We use a 2 mm clear from Halas the scheu bioplast and the colour is from Erkodent . We also use colours from other manufactures ( not sure where the boss gets them from ) . So they are not from the same manufacturer . After handeling the formed colour guard (making holes) we just stem clean it , fix the name or picture with Sellotape and laminate . We don't do any of the points you have mentioned except fresh blanks .Not sure if we are doing it right.
Just a small story . We have a young kid as a patient who plays basket ball and kept gagging with his guard in , this is two seasons now. So what we did for him was extend the mouth guard as deep into the labial and buccal sulcus as we could and only cover the occlusal aspects . The palate was left open . He is now a happy patient enjoying his game

Your from oz Maxi? Tested the drilled hole idea out and it's a gem. I like the brands you are talking about and if I don't have to repeat or remake then it's a saving in time and redoes.

 

[SiKBOY]

Do you do all the other things I mention as well, to the point of having the clear lamination nearly at lava point? We use pressure machine as well and have experimented anywhere between 2 to 5 bar which started cracking models through the guts
I like the idea of drilling small holes and will try this .
What or who's materials ( brand name) do you use over there?

If you don't want to crack the model, flatten out the palate section in the impression by cutting it out with a scalpel. That way you can still trim the model as low as you can but still have strength.

 

[SiKBOY]

If you are having issues with delam between the clear layer and colour, try roughen up the base layer so the clear has something to adhere to.

 

[araucaria]

agree with sikboy, roughen surface with scotch wheel before second layer is formed, & ensure hot enough.

 

[Betalab]

Thanks for all the input. I'm sure the 100% reliability will come. Just don't want it on my custom graphics, weeping saliva between layers and creating a stink bomb

 

[lowlight]

Is a pressure former THAT much better than a vacuum forming machine?
I'm so close to buying Erkoform-3d. Reason why I want it is you can mount opposing model to the machine for indentations,

 

[Betalab]

I started with yeah olde proform machine and it worked ok but at mouthguard season when higher volumes went thru the pressure former was a lot more friendly and adaptable. The picture you show will save time immediately just in articulation and they are nice and programable. It's far more now rather than then and if it has a bar code reader yo will never have to guess again. Just scan the blank and load it. Have fun