E-Max LT Press Stain

[PGguy]

I have been using the Ceram Shade to stain down the cervical. I find that the shade do not exactly match the shade tabs, has anybody experienced this?

ex. A2 A3...press out of A2 and use Shade 1 to stain down cervical.


The C and D is not bad but the A and B i find a little off.

Does anybody have a system they use to idiot proof this process?Maybe another product that's not Ivoclar. Or is it my lack of skills

Thanks.

 

[sixonice]

I have been using the Ceram Shade to stain down the cervical. I find that the shade do not exactly match the shade tabs, has anybody experienced this?

ex. A2 A3...press out of A2 and use Shade 1 to stain down cervical.


The C and D is not bad but the A and B i find a little off.

Does anybody have a system they use to idiot proof this process?Maybe another product that's not Ivoclar. Or is it my lack of skills

Thanks.

The e.max ceram shade paste is the proper shading material to use of the e.max material. The shade 1 is the proper shade for working with A2 & A3. You need to remember you will have to thin the paste down or keep it more full strength depending on the shade. The nice thing with the e.max shade pastes is that the way they look when their wet (before they are fired) is the way they will look when they are glazed & fired. You can also use another shade color (like the 0) to achieve the shade. Another cool thing in the shade pastes are the incisal's 1 & 2. They are the lower value blue-grey colors that work awesome for the incisal area. You need to use those when your doing external staining!
It takes a little practice, and sometimes a 2nd stain bake, but you can nail these shades pretty much on a rountine basis. Using any other stain & shade system I would think you would have even more problems. They have tested the e.max shades so you know they work and have been tested for you.

 

[TheLabGuy]

I find that the shade do not exactly match the shade tabs, has anybody experienced this?

Do you use Stumps and does your Doctors give you stump shades? It makes a difference, especially when it comes to thickness an translucency.

 

[finnster68]

Im a little more the opposite. I find the A+B's are fine however C+D are a pain due to the lack of ingots in the range i think.

What are you guys doing in LT when the shade is a D2 and we only have a D3 ingot.

I used some MO1 ingots today on 2 centrals for a D2 shade. (1 had a Post + Core hence i thought MO would be better option, Found it nearly impossible to stain the core to get it anywhere near a d2.

I did however get shown to sprinkle some D2 Deep Dentine over the stains and fire it, Then I layered the D2 dentine. Not actually sure how it looks yet, its 1145pm and im stuffed, will check in the morning

PCGuy, as Six mentioned, sometimes you need to do several stain fires, I think it looks a lot better if you do a couple of thin stain layers rather than trying to say, get an A1 looking like an A3 in 1 fire.

I hate the shade number 5. It looks like dirt ;p and if you have any tiny little pits in your crowns the no5 fills it in just dandy and it stands out like the preverbial dogs bollocks.

But all in all its a great material, just slowly learning how to use it correctly

 

[Al.]

Finnster, they should have all the shades is LT now, they do in HT. MO is the same. For D2 I use the D3 ingot but keep it thinner on the facial and a layer of incisal makes it a D2 easy. Same with C1 uisng a C2 ingot. But I think they should have a D2 and C1 in LT now.

PGguy most of the shades are a bit on the light side which is good for guys that press and stain posteriors, you stain the gin and the occlusal is lighter to simulate incisal.

 

[finnster68]

Thanks Al

Might ring Ivoclar and find out. I know they are very slow here in Australia getting things in as opposed to the great US of A

 

[finnster68]

Crowns turned out quite nice indeed on the MO ingot. Took a bit of work but got the required result

 

[sixonice]

Finnster, they should have all the shades is LT now, they do in HT. MO is the same. For D2 I use the D3 ingot but keep it thinner on the facial and a layer of incisal makes it a D2 easy. Same with C1 uisng a C2 ingot. But I think they should have a D2 and C1 in LT now.

PGguy most of the shades are a bit on the light side which is good for guys that press and stain posteriors, you stain the gin and the occlusal is lighter to simulate incisal.

All the missing e.max LT ingot shades are available Al. Just wanted to give you that info. The C1 & D2 are a very welcome addition!

 

[PGguy]

Thanks for all the input. I figured it out. No, the dentist doesn't provide stump shades for his posteriors. The shades work nicely.

 

[AL1]

universal stains for Ivoclar

Anyone ever use the universal stains on emax or mix them with emax pastes.I heard taht GC zirconia press stains work on emax.

 

[Al.]

Hey, you stole my name. I hope your not as ugly as me.

 

[Clear Precision Dental]

Hey, you stole my name. I hope your not as ugly as me.

We all hope.:drum:

 

[sixonice]

Anyone ever use the universal stains on emax or mix them with emax pastes.I heard taht GC zirconia press stains work on emax.

Don't use the Luster Pastes on e.max I have had colleagues that have tried them and had cracking due to the difference in coffecients of expansion. Stick with the e.max shades, stains & Essence. I have used the Universal with success.

 

[charles007]

sixonice,
Do you know if they used the correct Luster Paste. GC has one for zir that can be used on emax, as told to me by several GC reps. They also have a different Luster Paste for metal ceramics and ptm. Not recommending it, but was told to fire at a different temp than the normal temp. of glazing emax.......

 

[charles007]

Are most of you expert emax techs staining & glazing in two firing or one....with the LT's full contour.
Any tips with a facial 1/3 cutback?
Most of mine have been fired in one firing using the ep5000 without any changes to the program. I think I will start using 2 firings to prevent the some what grainy surface...... What say you?

Charles

 

[finnster68]

Are most of you expert emax techs staining & glazing in two firing or one....with the LT's full contour.
Any tips with a facial 1/3 cutback?
Most of mine have been fired in one firing using the ep5000 without any changes to the program. I think I will start using 2 firings to prevent the some what grainy surface...... What say you?

Charles

With full contour LT crowns i do seperate stain and glaze fires everytime.

Sometimes however i do an extra stain fire if i think it still needs a little more chroma. Usually if i have pressed in say an A1 ingot and it needs to be A3 or A4, you have to do several stain fires.

Also, i have found occasionally the staining has not come out as nice as i would like, maybe a bit grainy as you say, If thats the case i will lay a thin layer of dentine ove the top and blend it into the incisal with some OE2.

Gives them some Zip-A-De-Doo-Daa

 

[AL1]

Actually Al I used to be very good looking in my youth, according to the women.
I am trying to decide wether to use emp. esthetic or eris to get a shade of 3R 1.5 from the 3d vita master kit. Anyone have ideas on what ingot would work best?

 

[TheLabGuy]

Actually Al I used to be very good looking in my youth, according to the women.
I am trying to decide wether to use emp. esthetic or eris to get a shade of 3R 1.5 from the 3d vita master kit. Anyone have ideas on what ingot would work best?

3R1.5.....ouch That's halfway between C1 and A3 w/ a little pink added to it.....that is tough. I'd probably go ETC 1 for ethestic or MO1 for e.max. If it was me, I'd definitely do out of eris (E.max MO),just mix the A3 and C1 50/50 and remember to use some pink when you stained it.....Good Luck.

 

[AL1]

I will give it a try, it is an odd shade.
Thanks