Bubbles in e.max

[ejdent]

I am using all parameters set by ivoclar. I posted a few weeks ago asking for help with some over pressing issues and I have utilized the advice on here to fix the problem.

All firing parameters for my ep500 including the investment are followed to the t
Using micro star investment
Invex liquid for ~20 minutes

I am getting bubbles like crazy. I am pressing lt ingots and using the ceram from ivoclar. All my materials and equipment are brand new except the ep500 but has been calibrated properly

Any input will be appreciated


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[Gru]

ejdent: I also use the EP500 and have maintained them for years. Possibly a vacuum issue? There are many seals in the unit and if they leak even a little, you might get bubbles. Are they in the pressing only, the ceram or both? When do they show up? PM me for a phone # if I can help, I know how frustrating this can be.

 

[KentPWalton]

I am using all parameters set by ivoclar. I posted a few weeks ago asking for help with some over pressing issues and I have utilized the advice on here to fix the problem.

All firing parameters for my ep500 including the investment are followed to the t
Using micro star investment
Invex liquid for ~20 minutes

I am getting bubbles like crazy. I am pressing lt ingots and using the ceram from ivoclar. All my materials and equipment are brand new except the ep500 but has been calibrated properly

Any input will be appreciated


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

You're getting these bubbles when you pour up the rings. How many rings do you pour up at one time? Are you vibrating them gently? Are you using something small (NOT A BRUSH!!) to flow the investment on the inside of the crowns before you pour them up? Are you using de-bubblizer? Are you pouring the investment in slowly or quickly in the ring? There are tons of variables out there because of human interaction and it varies from pour to pour. There has to be a system of steps you take every time! Call Jensen and ask for Terry. He can help you big time!


Contact Jensen Dental

He can help and explain what to do correctly.

 

[ejdent]

I should have clarified. The bubbles are in the ceram. The pressing is near perfect every time

 

[KentPWalton]

I should have clarified. The bubbles are in the ceram. The pressing is near perfect every time

If you have bubbles in the ceram, then you have bubbles in investment. Trust me! Just call Terry, he can help you tons!!!

 

[2thm8kr]

Try increasing your high temp for the dentin bake 5-10 degrees C.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Picture please

 

[KentPWalton]

Bubbles have nothing to do with the temps. He said he was going by the directions, so there's no problem there. I'm telling you, it's the investment!!

 

[KentPWalton]

We press 20 plus rings a day, and I've run into this problem he's having. It's all about the investment.

 

[Gru]

Ditto TheLabGuy, photos please. A picture is worth a thousand posts.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Probably contamination from the reaction layer not being removed well enough.

 

[Gdentallab]

Try increasing your high temp for the dentin bake 5-10 degrees C.

agree with you. I had the same problem and the low temp was the problem. Emax ceram is very sensitive to temp changes. Even 2 ¤C can affect the bake.

 

[ejdent]

I will take pictures the next time I press am e.max. I spoke with ivoclar earlier and will also contact jensen in a few. Thanks for the input

 

[Harmony]

Okay here is the solution!

I have been using the system for almost 10 years now, and one thing i have realized is ------ BACK TO BASICS! About a year ago i started having the same issue, it has nothing to do with temperatures, vacuum etc. It is the wax. When u invest the wax act hydrophobic. This means the investment actually pulls away from the marginal areas creating air voids causing bubbles. The most simplest way to avoid this is to use ordinary crowax (renfert red/green) or special marginal wax. Forget what everybody tells you about carbon residue blah blah, as long as you do not create your entire wax pattern from this wax it will be fine. Do a thick cervical build up with this wax so that when the margins are carved clean only this wax shows.
Problem solved

 

[Harmony]

oh and by the way if the bubbles are not in the marginal area---- your thermal couple (not sure of the spelling) is about to go-----thin over priced little wire

 

[dmonwaxa]

Probably contamination from the reaction layer not being removed well enough.

Ditto

 

[user name]

Ditto

Ditto that.

 

[disturbed]

Ditto that.

I agree, reaction layer..likely... vaccum second most likely IMO.. but yea, PICTURES speak in volumes.

 

[disturbed]

dude screaming about investment needs to re read posts.. dude talking wax reaction.. needs to change his wax..and read the thread... margin wax is simply more stable from my understanding..??

 

[Gru]

We're all the blind men with the elephant here. Too little actual information. Any one could be right, but as we all know troubleshooting is a process. Maybe it's the lube, the wax, the vacuum mixer, the vibration during investment, the method of investing, the press, the vacuum on the press, the reaction layer, etc. What I really appreciate about this sight is the sheer volume of information. If nothing else it reminds me how complex the process can be.