Asxys or CAP

[KentPWalton]

Greg at axsys told me he recommends just milling everything wet. Said it saves on machine and tool life. I guess the downside is drying your zirc before you sinter. Is there another downside?

It doesn't have to do with tool wear since no heat is produced when cutting. It has more to do

with keeping the dust off of all of the internal components of the machine to make it last longer.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

versamill cutting zirconia is QUIET goddang!!

barely a whisper.

and the surface finish of a zirconia unit is like glass. smooth as silk.

 

[brayks]

It doesn't have to do with tool wear since no heat is produced when cutting. It has more to do

with keeping the dust off of all of the internal components of the machine to make it last longer.

Actually heat is produced in the machining process, especially when cutting rate/feedrate/spindle rpm are not optimized. The question is where is the heat absorbed?

When perfectly synchronized, taking radial chip thinning into consideration (which is often not the case),the heat is in the "chip" (desired) and not in the tool (causing wear) or work-piece (work-hardening).

Water does act as a coolant but most importantly it keeps the swarf contained and out of the cutting area to reduce or eliminate "re-cutting".
It is extremely important, especially with abrasive materials to clear the swarf from a cut out away from the cutter so that it does not remain so as to be machined again.
This is particularly important in:

• Use of diamond tools (i.e. DLC, CVD etc.)
• Machining glass-ceramic material (i.e. lithium disilicate, e.max, celtra duo, etc.)
• Machining in "deep" cavities (i.e. prep area)
• High rpm applications
• Machining of caustic or flammable materials. (In the case of ZrO2, an irritant whos chemical, physical and toxicological characteristics are not fully known and where accumulation is fire hazard which can emit toxic fumes).

Proper use of cutting fluid type (water or treated) and pressure as well as cutting rate and spindle speed are also key to assure quality machined products (i.e. fit, finish, accuracy, etc.) while achieving long cutting tool life and short cycle times and a very nice finished product.

 

[JKraver]

Be super careful about switching back and forth from dry to wet. I would designate if at all possible. Wet Zir allowed to dry on something could be best described as concrete that has been fired like porcelain on the inside of your mill. Never experienced first hand, but that is how my old boss told me. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[KentPWalton]

I think going back and forth from wet to dry and back to wet can be a big deal. It depends on the mill. I got a Ceramill in my lab. Its really build to go back and forth, no problem. I have had other miles where I have done it and it created problems.
The wet or dry only thought process should be based on need and ROI.
The key here is justifying the added cost for wet using an ROI.

Bob,

What's the spindle life on the DWX-51 and how much does it cost to replace? Is that considered in the

ROI calculations too? That's something that needs to be added in there right? 3000 hours on this spindle

or more? Just curious.

 

[KentPWalton]

Actually heat is produced in the machining process, especially when cutting rate/feedrate/spindle rpm are not optimized. The question is where is the heat absorbed?

When perfectly synchronized, taking radial chip thinning into consideration (which is often not the case),the heat is in the "chip" (desired) and not in the tool (causing wear) or work-piece (work-hardening).

Water does act as a coolant but most importantly it keeps the swarf contained and out of the cutting area to reduce or eliminate "re-cutting".
It is extremely important, especially with abrasive materials to clear the swarf from a cut out away from the cutter so that it does not remain so as to be machined again.
This is particularly important in:

• Use of diamond tools (i.e. DLC, CVD etc.)
• Machining glass-ceramic material (i.e. lithium disilicate, e.max, celtra duo, etc.)
• Machining in "deep" cavities (i.e. prep area)
• High rpm applications
• Machining of caustic or flammable materials. (In the case of ZrO2, an irritant whos chemical, physical and toxicological characteristics are not fully known and where accumulation is fire hazard which can emit toxic fumes).

Proper use of cutting fluid type (water or treated) and pressure as well as cutting rate and spindle speed are also key to assure quality machined products (i.e. fit, finish, accuracy, etc.) while achieving long cutting tool life and short cycle times and a very nice finished product.

Well then...Thank you Steve for that info. I've learned something today!

 

[sensei]

Wait,..so CAP must have showed you the Ceramill motion 2 right?,..and you wanted the DWX51 4w ? Was it a price thing? Just wondering

CAP only talked to me about the Roland. Maybe I should call back and ask about the Ceramill?

 

[LA Ceramics]

CAP only talked to me about the Roland. Maybe I should call back and ask about the Ceramill?

Wise choice Grasshopper,...now you are ready to learn the truth,... however, first you must find your way around that great and horrible creature which stands between you and the Ceramill Motion 2,........THE ROLAND PROFIT MARGIN!!!!! Ooooohahahahahahhhaha!!!!!! (yeah, I know,..too dramatic?)

Salesmen gotta' have nice cars you know,...not some ghastly domestic vehicle like,...............well like the one you're driving

 

[LA Ceramics]

Be super careful about switching back and forth from dry to wet. I would designate if at all possible. Wet Zir allowed to dry on something could be best described as concrete that has been fired like porcelain on the inside of your mill. Never experienced first hand, but that is how my old boss told me. Maybe I am wrong.

I'm thinking a little more like peanut butter on the roof of your mouth,.......mmmmmm,......peanut butter aaarrrggggggllllcoughcough,....mmmmm

 

[LA Ceramics]

Greg at axsys told me he recommends just milling everything wet. Said it saves on machine and tool life. I guess the downside is drying your zirc before you sinter. Is there another downside?

Um,...how 'bout tryin' ta stain a dang FCZ that's plumb full o' water,....sheeez lewwweeezzzz boy!!!!!

 

[LA Ceramics]

Hi CoolHandLuke
Yes we offer the choice of Hyperdent or Dentmill. We prefer the Hyperdent for the 5XS. However it all depends on the customers needs.

I was raised on Dentmill,..but then I moved away from it,...and then Delcam moved away from it,...kinda sad,...speaking of sad,...do you ever get sad gazing out over the old Ford Wixom Plant. It was a swell place when my old man worked there,.. I actually worked there too at one time,...then Ford moved away from it. Yeah,...I'm from Detroit,....but then I moved away from it,...it's not too late ,...just a little Michigan humor there,..eh pal ?!

 

[cadfan]

The versamill can do wet and/or dry. Change over is not a problem due to quality construction and isolation/sealing of internals and machining area.

Regarding machine quality, there is really no comparison. Take an in-depth look at the DWX-51D and its clear that the 5XS, with its larger pre-loaded ball screws, linear guide way system, heavier axes drive motors, 500W/60,000 rpm spindle, heavy frame (2X heavier than Roland),superior zero-stack tolerance rotary drive system and more, is by far a more significant and trouble-free machine.

Regarding support, CAP has a good reputation, as do we... and for a reason. I don't see you going wrong with either.

For the money, it is my biased (and educated) opinion that the 5XS is the best available at its price point and even beats out many of the more expensive machines that are referenced in high regard on this forum.

Now where's that T-shirt that Sam has from Ron?

Hy brayks why dont you offer the S5III ??

 

[brayks]

I was raised on Dentmill,..but then I moved away from it,...and then Delcam moved away from it,...kinda sad,...speaking of sad,...do you ever get sad gazing out over the old Ford Wixom Plant. It was a swell place when my old man worked there,.. I actually worked there too at one time,...then Ford moved away from it. Yeah,...I'm from Detroit,....but then I moved away from it,...it's not too late ,...just a little Michigan humor there,..eh pal ?!

How about that brother, small world. If you ever get back here, please look me up. I know a lot of folks worked at that plant.
I'm not sure sad is quite the word but yeah it a bit strange to see the place leveled. There's a Menards there now and General RV has huge facility there.
Our office is actually just across Wixom Rd of of West Rd, in the shadow of the old Ford Plant.
I do not miss the traffic nor the break-in's which have both diminished since they were makin' Thunderbirds...

 

[brayks]

Um,...how 'bout tryin' ta stain a dang FCZ that's plumb full o' water,....sheeez lewwweeezzzz boy!!!!!

That would be bad. Nah, just pop in a toaster over for a bit to get 'em dried and enjoy the results, environmental benefits AND your machine will love 'ya forever.

 

[brayks]

CAP only talked to me about the Roland. Maybe I should call back and ask about the Ceramill?

Probably a good idea. Almost as good of an idea as giving me a shout to talk about what we have going on over here with our versamill's.

 

[charles007]

Don't quote me on this, one Versa mill owner told me he thinks most labs are milling zirconia wet in their Axsys Versa Mills without any problems, and like not having to deal with all the dust...

Edit: Seems like they said 10-15 minutes in toaster oven to dry out

 

[Car 54]

Heard that one before, too.

 

[brayks]

Hy brayks why dont you offer the S5III ??

Let's just say that those machines do not provide any additional value to our product portfolio over that which is provided by our current solution offerings...