Acrylic Casting Pressure?

[kcdt]

I hope you didn't take my post as aimed at you personally, Rob. I intended it more to be taken by anyone who has polarized the discussion, and I leave that judgment up to the individual.
These discussions sometimes seem to go down that rabbit hole, and I'm just trying to remind everyone that we need to respect each others views.
I still remember that whole "dichotomy of validity" that the ceramists used to foist off on the removable technicians.... it's very easy to go from advocating one's views to insulting the other segments of the industry.
So please don't take me wrong, I trot out my "why can't we get along" speaech every six months or so.

I think the point you made about being in business to make a profit is spot-on, and we should all be willing to look at our operations with a critical eye in that regard.
I believe it is possible to meet basic need in a qualitative manner and make a profit, but you need to screen the drs just as prudently as you would for advanced levels of prosthetic work, you cannot keep incompetency on board with regard to either the clinician or the technical aspects and call it quality.

 

[LYNWOOD]

As I understand Ivoclar is coming out with a new Ivocap system? Has anyone heard? It was in developmental stages last year for release this year?

 

[hydent]

Bart,

I know what you are talking about!!
Being a dental technician and especially a lab owner can be financially challenging to say the least.. I have two daughters and they remember some very difficult financial times I had as they were growing up. Over the last three decades my lab has evolved to where it is today.
My current lab did not just happen because I decided to market middle to high end prosthetics, it evolved from the mistakes I made when my lab targeted the low to middle market of prosthetics.
If you have read my articles you know I discuss the need for tiered marketing and offerring a wide range of prosthetic needs (extended product lines) to meet the desires and demands of todays prosthetic patient.
What you must understand is you are in business and no matter what market you cater to or which prosthetic product you are manufacturing you must make a PROFIT.. Now the level of profit will vary with every case depending on the variables involved. You must know how to read a profit and loss statement and understand where your percentages should be in line with sales and gross margin. I did not understand this myself until about 10 years ago and just opened and dental laboratory 35 years ago not a business!!
There is a definite difference from owning a lab and operating a business..

I understand that you are very young and do not have the experience, knowledge or wisdom as the old bas...ds in the dental laboratory world.

Being young you will see many changes in the dental lab industry/profession in the coming years...Removable prosthetics will evlove as did fixed prosthetics and there will be a technology revolution in manufacturing processes that is inevitable....

Remember that knowledge is the key to success...regardless of what market you are in........

Rob

Thanks Rob, fortunately I have a wife who is much smarter than myself at business she has a degree in accounting and a minor in business so that has been a huge advantage to my business. Even with that advantage it is still a learning experience for us both. I want to target high end rem pros because that is the part of the business that I enjoy doing the most I am perfectly happy with the money I make at this point in time I have an extremely full work load and most of it is mid/high end stuff. You are right about constantly learning and evolving with technology that is my plan and goal, as I said before I want to be tops in the realm of rem pros someday, I make no secret about that, it is my goal and I think with the 12 years of experience I have and and only being 31 I think that it's a realistic possibility. You OB's do have experience and for that you have my respect please don't take a small comment like Old Bast. as disrespect as that isn't what it was intended for.

 

[kcdt]

Damn, I wish I was 31 again... and with 12 years under your belt? You will go places.

 

[Kreyer]

Thanks Rob, fortunately I have a wife who is much smarter than myself at business she has a degree in accounting and a minor in business so that has been a huge advantage to my business. Even with that advantage it is still a learning experience for us both. I want to target high end rem pros because that is the part of the business that I enjoy doing the most I am perfectly happy with the money I make at this point in time I have an extremely full work load and most of it is mid/high end stuff. You are right about constantly learning and evolving with technology that is my plan and goal, as I said before I want to be tops in the realm of rem pros someday, I make no secret about that, it is my goal and I think with the 12 years of experience I have and and only being 31 I think that it's a realistic possibility. You OB's do have experience and for that you have my respect please don't take a small comment like Old Bast. as disrespect as that isn't what it was intended for.

Bart,

They say behind every good man is a great woman!!

I admire your passion for prosthodontics.
If you are truly interested in going to the next level my recommendation is to join the American Prosthodontic Society!!!
Go to APS Home Page and check out the 2011 scientific session in Chicago..
The APS has amazing world class prosthodontic presentations and you will network with some of the best clinicians in the world.

2011 Program

I look forward to having a beer with you someday!!
Hopefully at the APS in 2011...

Rob

 

[hydent]

Bart,

They say behind every good man is a great woman!!

I admire your passion for prosthodontics.
If you are truly interested in going to the next level my recommendation is to join the American Prosthodontic Society!!!
Go to APS Home Page and check out the 2011 scientific session in Chicago..
The APS has amazing world class prosthodontic presentations and you will network with some of the best clinicians in the world.

2011 Program

I look forward to having a beer with you someday!!
Hopefully at the APS in 2011...

Rob

I guess I should go get certified they wont let this bum in the APS without being certified. Damn was hoping that I could put that off for another 12 years.

I'd like to have a beer with you someday Rob.

 

[CYNOSURER]

It is also interesting that most production labs like Glidewell use the Ivocap System exclusively.

This just in from NADL survey:

 

[Didley]

This just in from NADL survey:

View attachment 893

Tim could you explain what this graph is about
Thanks

 

[Didley]

Can you direct me to any research on injecting V packing?

 

[CYNOSURER]

Tim could you explain what this graph is about
Thanks

the graph shows what type of acrylic labs use.

Like most surveys it's hard as hell to really evaluate the results.
It shows of the 76 large (>25 techs) labs reporting that injection technique accounts for 24% of their denture process. This doesn't mean that only 24% of the large labs have injection, though it could or that they all have it and use it only 24% of the time. No more and likely it's a blend of numbers to get that figure...unlike the smaller lab totals where the likelihood that the small labs do choose between one system or the other...but sill there could be some that have both you just can't get that from the data.

I am assuming you clicked on the thumbnail and got the full size view.

 

[Didley]

I am assuming you clicked on the thumbnail and got the full size view.

Yes thanks, interesting. Love to know why people use injection, do they just believe it's better because that's the hype or have they tested it and proven it's worth.

 

[Didley]

Bit of an odd survey, 21% of large Labs had invalid responses I guess?

 

[CYNOSURER]

Bit of an odd survey, 21% of large Labs had invalid responses I guess?

Could have been the number of large labs that don't have a removable department was 21% and throw in the one or two who might have said something like...we inject half and press half and the other half we light cure.

Gotta love half-assed answers.

 

[Didley]

I'd like to explain, previous comments I made regarding testing of injection technique dentures regarding VD opening may have been invalid, as I may have been using too great a pressure. I need to do more research, and I apologize for my misleading information. I have edited the post.

I do ask again for any leads to web sites containing research into the benefits of injecting over pressing

 

[Didley]

Yeah thanks Tim, who knows ha? Interesting graph though, thanks for putting it up.

 

[kcdt]

I'd like to explain, previous comments I made regarding testing of injection technique dentures regarding VD opening may have been invalid, as I may have been using too great a pressure. I need to do more research, and I apologize for my misleading information. I have edited the post.

I do ask again for any leads to web sites containing research into the benefits of injecting over pressing

Elsevier

They have some research posted here. I don't know if you can access it. Private message me your email and I'll send you some of the studies as PDF.
The gist of them is that there is less distortion in the vertical and a different type of distortion bicuspid to bicuspid. The differences ARE quantifiable, they are very SMALL, and they are not necessarily considered clinically relevant.
PM me and I'll send you some to read yourself.

 

[Didley]

Thanks kcdt (Ken I think),I think I can access that by the looks of it. I'll give it go, as soon as I get time and get back if I can't. Many thanks. I think my problem is casting pressure, which would be solved if I'd buy the diamond D pneumatic press instead of being so miserly. But I am learning a lot about the subject experimenting the way I am. I think there is an optimum casting pressure, to little and you get porosity and maybe warpage, to great and you get warpage and bite opening. I think the bite opening in the press technique may be due too high a casting pressure, as it’s not regulated in any way it can’t be avoided as with injection. Ultimately if you could bleed off some pressure to the “optimum” a conventional flask would give the same result as injection, maybe???? These are the thoughts I’m having currently and may change as I learn.

 

[kcdt]

Yes, it's ken. Let me know if you can't access it, I have it.

 

[Didley]

Yes, it's ken. Let me know if you can't access it, I have it.

Thanks Ken. I have Purchased and down loaded Comparison of accuracy between compression- and injection-molded complete dentures
Sergio S. Nogueira, Robert E. Ogle, Elaine L. Davis
Journal of Prosthetic Dentistry: Volume 82, Issue 3, 291-300

 

[kcdt]

"On the basis of
these results, the injection molding system using
PMMA and the long cure technique was the more
accurate method for processing dentures. Under the
limitations of this study, it was not possible to determine
whether the significant differences in horizontal
dimensions would or would not represent a warpage
that was clinically significant."
So you can see, they find it more accurate, but won't say if that translates to where the rubber meets the road.
If you find another study you want to see in JPD contact me, I have a subscription, save your money for food.