3shape & hardware, going technical

[AlienMilling]

Ibuypower is cool but Alienware is the classic. It's like apple for gamers. Plus for a company called alien milling it only made sense

 

[Jussi Roivanen]

Nice that Sevan the insider is here. haha. I think i wont be connecting scanner (D900) to USB3.0 port :-D

To me it is no Alienware, no Ebay, no Amazon. We get something from local dealer. i7-5820K, X99 chipset motherboard, 32gb mem, GTX960 4gb, PSU 520w passive, SSD 256gb NVMe m.2 (samsung 950pro),small case (fractal design node 605),3dconnexion spacenav wireless. Rig is around 2400 USD (~2100 €)... And that madness Wacom Cintiq 27QHD touch (with ergo stand and calibration device). Oh well. im lucky that i am not paying for this :-D

Anyways, back to the questions!

We have our 3Shape Dental Designer set up on a network, what kind of questions do you have?

How "independent" Dongle service/server (the software) actually is? Does some functionalites (eg. scanning) require dongle to be attached "locally" (like scanner wont operate if that computer does not have dongle on it)? Im not sure on what machine Dongle service must be running if my environment consists of A) A Database/Storage server B) Scan Station C) 2-3 Design stations. At this point i would make it so, that i would put dongle on Scan Station, since database (ms sql) and storage (windows shares) do not need the Dongle to operate.. But I also think that it not might be a bad choice to keep that Dongle service running on most fault tolerant piece of equipment (A Server, that is).

i know dongle service use certain port to communicate on network and that has to be open for inbound (and presumably outbound) so that other computers to check dongle status. However i tried this and i got the dental system (list of orders/scans) running on remote computer, but Designer (ApplianceDesigner was one i tried) did not start because it "did not find" Dongle.

I must allow "design stations" to connect dongle service/server, allow them to connect SQL service to access database (weather it is running on scan station or separate database/storage server) and allow those stations write to a "shared folder" (of scan data) and that part is easy. But then there is the trickier part: How client installations actually communicate with "a dongle server"? Is it done so that on every client has a piece of software (dongle service namely) that handles all communication between client and remote dongle server/service, or do add-on modules (like ApplianceDesigner.exe for example) need to access dongle service directly.. So do i have to open/allow ALL modules to access remote Dongle Server/Service (adjust windows firewall/defender/whateverthatis accordingly)?

-- J

 

[Sevan P]

Nice that Sevan the insider is here. haha. I think i wont be connecting scanner (D900) to USB3.0 port :-D

To me it is no Alienware, no Ebay, no Amazon. We get something from local dealer. i7-5820K, X99 chipset motherboard, 32gb mem, GTX960 4gb, PSU 520w passive, SSD 256gb NVMe m.2 (samsung 950pro),small case (fractal design node 605),3dconnexion spacenav wireless. Rig is around 2400 USD (~2100 €)... And that madness Wacom Cintiq 27QHD touch (with ergo stand and calibration device). Oh well. im lucky that i am not paying for this :-D

Anyways, back to the questions!



How "independent" Dongle service/server (the software) actually is? Does some functionalites (eg. scanning) require dongle to be attached "locally" (like scanner wont operate if that computer does not have dongle on it)? Im not sure on what machine Dongle service must be running if my environment consists of A) A Database/Storage server B) Scan Station C) 2-3 Design stations. At this point i would make it so, that i would put dongle on Scan Station, since database (ms sql) and storage (windows shares) do not need the Dongle to operate.. But I also think that it not might be a bad choice to keep that Dongle service running on most fault tolerant piece of equipment (A Server, that is).

i know dongle service use certain port to communicate on network and that has to be open for inbound (and presumably outbound) so that other computers to check dongle status. However i tried this and i got the dental system (list of orders/scans) running on remote computer, but Designer (ApplianceDesigner was one i tried) did not start because it "did not find" Dongle.

I must allow "design stations" to connect dongle service/server, allow them to connect SQL service to access database (weather it is running on scan station or separate database/storage server) and allow those stations write to a "shared folder" (of scan data) and that part is easy. But then there is the trickier part: How client installations actually communicate with "a dongle server"? Is it done so that on every client has a piece of software (dongle service namely) that handles all communication between client and remote dongle server/service, or do add-on modules (like ApplianceDesigner.exe for example) need to access dongle service directly.. So do i have to open/allow ALL modules to access remote Dongle Server/Service (adjust windows firewall/defender/whateverthatis accordingly)?

-- J

You leave the dongle in the PC that 3shape was installed on as a server. Then you install 3shape as a network client and simply point the dongle towards the server. Then install scan server on the network client and connect the scanner to the network client pc. Since the client is pointed to the server for the dongle the scanner follows. You can run up to 4 scanners on a single dongle i think. You must only add more design seat as needed to the same dongle. No need for multiple dongles, this way you can have 4 pc's two are design only and the other two are scan only, assuming you have two design seat on the dongle.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

over the years I have learned the merits of having that dongle plugged into your main server vs a workstation though. (if you have that option)

 

[Jussi Roivanen]

over the years I have learned the merits of having that dongle plugged into your main server vs a workstation though. (if you have that option)

yep. i am TESTING this kind of environment with reqular PC's atm. If things run nicely then we might get a 2nd hand HP DL380/385 or HP SE368M1 for REAL database/storage. Those things are realtively cheap in webshop (in germany, and there is tons of spare parts available).. so i was thinking to stick all dongles into that thing. Then just set up fully working 3shape thingy to a one pc, then use 3shapes "clone system" option to set up other stations.

 

[kbr0125]

Go with the I7, Dual CPU XEON work stations with dual GTX 980 SLI does not perform any different than a i7 with a gtx 970. Save you money and invest it for the rainy day when your equipment breaks down.


Recommendation.

Build your own computer with a I7 6700HQ , 16GB of ram, GTX 970 with a SSD. You can price it right and get it for 1,000-1,200. Putting 3shape on a $5,000-$10,000 work station does no difference.

 

[kristian]

Dual CPU XEON work stations with dual GTX 980 SLI does not perform any different than a i7 with a gtx 970.

This. Unless your designers also do some hard core gaming on their work PCs, the amount of money you throw into a single workstation won't get you any real speed benefits beyond a certain, very modest, price point.

 

[Pipes]

Just one clarification, I hope all of you advising SSD drive you are thinking about system not for storing actual scan data, and if you don't I hope you are backing up your data often.

I'm a new user here and have been reading through this since we are about to buy a new computer for our main design PC - why would you NOT put scan data on a SSD? Are you talking just for backing up files or for 3Shape cases that are being designed? I would think putting everything on your SSD would make it faster, no?

 

[JMN]

Ibuypower is cool but Alienware is the classic. It's like apple for gamers. Plus for a company called alien milling it only made sense

Dude, you got a Dell...

 

[JMN]

I'm a new user here and have been reading through this since we are about to buy a new computer for our main design PC - why would you NOT put scan data on a SSD? Are you talking just for backing up files or for 3Shape cases that are being designed? I would think putting everything on your SSD would make it faster, no?

With case data having state mandated retention periods of 3-5 years in many places, SSDs just aren't there yet. 5 years if right about the theoretic lifetime of the current consumer level drives. They use, generaly, MLC or some even TLC NAND flash memory. These chips all have a finite write cycle before they will experiece 'burn' at the memory cell level, and not either not store the data given them or in some cases it will be corrupted when written at that point. Case data is generally not moved around on a drive, but stored once a left alone. Thus it *may* be perfectly safe, unless a transformer blows nearby creating a minor EMP event, or you have a fire, which spinning platters will survive. It's just still young technology. Also, it's data availability and retention paranoia for litigious reasons and re-make-ability to retread a all-on-four type case among other reasons.

Anyway, if you back up like you should...

 

[JMN]

I'm a new user here and have been reading through this since we are about to buy a new computer for our main design PC - why would you NOT put scan data on a SSD? Are you talking just for backing up files or for 3Shape cases that are being designed? I would think putting everything on your SSD would make it faster, no?

I forgot something:
Greetings Earthling! Welcome!

 

[CoolHandLuke]

I'm a new user here and have been reading through this since we are about to buy a new computer for our main design PC - why would you NOT put scan data on a SSD? Are you talking just for backing up files or for 3Shape cases that are being designed? I would think putting everything on your SSD would make it faster, no?

doesnt make any difference what medium your files are stored on. 3shape software only runs on a single core.

 

[JMN]

doesnt make any difference what medium your files are stored on. 3shape software only runs on a single core.

What about Exo? Do you know?

 

[2thm8kr]

What about Exo? Do you know?

exo can take advantage of multiple cores, here is how it was explained recently.

"exo develops and bench tests with i7 go for the fastest quad-core i7 you can afford. The advantage of using hexacore i7 is quite minimal."

" It also depends on your cases that you do regularly. If you often only have 4-6 units at most, an 8 core CPU cannot do dedicated work, and so the cpu with 4.2ghz with 4 cores will often be faster than a 3.2ghz with 8 cores.
However, if you often have over 8 units in one case, or if you sometimes run CAD and CAM or scanning at the same time, then the 8 cores might be the better choice."

Basically if you are doing more things with the workstation at the same time more cores are better generally speaking.

 

[JMN]

exo can take advantage of multiple cores, here is how it was explained recently.

"exo develops and bench tests with i7 go for the fastest quad-core i7 you can afford. The advantage of using hexacore i7 is quite minimal."

" It also depends on your cases that you do regularly. If you often only have 4-6 units at most, an 8 core CPU cannot do dedicated work, and so the cpu with 4.2ghz with 4 cores will often be faster than a 3.2ghz with 8 cores.
However, if you often have over 8 units in one case, or if you sometimes run CAD and CAM or scanning at the same time, then the 8 cores might be the better choice."

Basically if you are doing more things with the workstation at the same time more cores are better generally speaking.

Thank you. It's the old SMP trick, not faster, just more.

 

[2thm8kr]

I guess. I'm no computer engineer.

 

[JMN]

I guess. I'm no computer engineer.

Me neither, just an old school geek.
SMP =Symetric Multi-Processors
Back when we were hacking a GPS into our dinosaurs, getting a special motherboard with multiple processor sockets was the only way to have multiple cores for the somewhat normal people. I had one for the original 75Mhz Pentiums. The true Alpha Nerds had more...interesting...options.

 

[Pipes]

Any thoughts or opinions on this off-the-shelf computer from Costco? I'd use the 128GB SSD for the system and keep cases on the 2TB HDD. Don't know if the 6GB graphics card is overkill?

https://www.costco.com/CyberpowerPC...orce-GTX-1060-Graphics.product.100333329.html

 

[JMN]

Any thoughts or opinions on this off-the-shelf computer from Costco? I'd use the 128GB SSD for the system and keep cases on the 2TB HDD. Don't know if the 6GB graphics card is overkill?

https://www.costco.com/CyberpowerPC...orce-GTX-1060-Graphics.product.100333329.html

Not overkill if you're doing more than 3 unit bridges.

 

[Torquadon]

I'm a new user here and have been reading through this since we are about to buy a new computer for our main design PC - why would you NOT put scan data on a SSD? Are you talking just for backing up files or for 3Shape cases that are being designed? I would think putting everything on your SSD would make it faster, no?

Faster - yes, but it is not exactly safe. We are keeping our scans same amount of time as dentists are obliged to keep models / scans here in UK - 5 years. If you are busy lab, using your pc 8h a day for scanning and designing you are getting close to SSD's lifespan. What we are doing now, we are using SSDs and storing important cases in a cloud - god performance and far better safety than any local storage