lava ultimate

[French Cadman]

Oh !

Thanks my friend !

It looks beautiful and translucent ...

Do you use stains ?

What is your price in US or Canada ?

 

[rkm rdt]

I cut back the cusp tips and added 3M Sinfony incisal composite.

It is a sample case but I wanted to post a pic before Labguy

 

[French Cadman]

Nice work rkm !

Now, I'm waiting to see others ....

 

[Affinity]

If this has a 10 year warranty as Ive heard, does this include debonding or only breakage? Does 3m pay you to remake it? ha How does the warranty work?

 

[NicelyMKV]

Does anyone know if the HT material greys out like Emax HT does? Would you need to o a few shades lighter?


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[hammerhead]

Does anyone know if the HT material greys out like Emax HT does? Would you need to o a few shades lighter?


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Nicely We find LT blocks are plenty translucent for 90 percent of cases.

HT blocks arent grey so much as to clear.

Funny how DRS that thought very translucent crowns were unattainable now say its to much.lol

 

[paulg100]

How did you go about deciding the fee for those rob?

Since they are now classified as a ceramic and the material cost is about the same as emax, im guessing your charging em out the same as emax?

 

[BobCDT]

I was at NADL meeting in Vegas last week. Gordon Christensen had a lot of good things to say about Ultimate. If he continues and 3M increases marketing I believe Docs will be requesting it.
BTW, the meeting was terrific. Loaded of great info. If you didn't attend you should consider going next year. Well worth the trip and price of admission.

 

[PCDL]

Agreed with the above on the HT vs. LT. I haven't used any HT blocks on cases, just a few samples. The LT is plenty for your needs. Has anyone played around with some different staining kits for this? The Sinfony stains are up there, the cheapest I found was $66/bottle.

Regarding pricing, I have been positioning Ultimate restorations at $99 right now, and I haven't been getting much push back on that one. I'm into the crown for $43 roughly, so not bad overall.

My biggest complaint/frustration with the material is how to position it to clients. I get a fair number of clients asking me "That's all well and good, but why wouldn't I just do an eMax or FC Zirconia instead, its Stronger, right??" So far, that has been a hurdle for me.

 

[rkm rdt]

"How did you go about deciding the fee for those rob? "

"Since they are now classified as a ceramic and the material cost is about the same as emax, im guessing your charging em out the same as emax?"

Not yet,

I'm in a holding pattern with this material.

I think I will view this as a long term transitional material and price it accordingly.

 

[rkm rdt]

I was at NADL meeting in Vegas last week. Gordon Christensen had a lot of good things to say about Ultimate. If he continues and 3M increases marketing I believe Docs will be requesting it.
BTW, the meeting was terrific. Loaded of great info. If you didn't attend you should consider going next year. Well worth the trip and price of admission.

However he did not have the same kind words for zirconia abutments and hybrids.

 

[paulg100]

yeah i was about to ask Bob, how did he present their questionable research on ZR (where they dont clarify that the research is based on unsupported frames and no slow cool)?

 

[rkm rdt]

yeah i was about to ask Bob, how did he present their questionable research on ZR (where they dont clarify that the research is based on unsupported frames and no slow cool)?

That's different, he was saying that drs should avoid using zir abutments because they are fracturing.I asked him about hybrids and he admitted they were a bit stronger.

I think he was criticizing Nobel active and Straumann bone level zir abutments. He was a big fan of 3rd party components.

 

[disturbed]

This is a composite right?? ... Anyone here remember belle glass?..thinking debonding will become an issue..i will stick with what has proven to last. 5-6 years from now i will consider.

 

[rkm rdt]

This is a composite right?? ... Anyone here remember belle glass?..thinking debonding will become an issue..i will stick with what has proven to last. 5-6 years from now i will consider.

That should be just enough time for you to learn the difference .

 

[disturbed]

Already talk of debonding....

 

[Mike2]

I have done a couple also.; My issues are as follows:
-Why cut back and layer with composite, it will turn matte finish just like they always have. The idea of this stuff was it polishes to a high shine and holds that luster over time. Composite doesn't.
-Staining, same issue as above, expensive, but my money is on using the Zr stains and light curing then covering with clear?
-I am still waiting for Dr's to request it as promised with all the mket'ing that was to be done
-only 8 shades, REALLY, I am not going to stain and cut back for 139$ a unit to match shades. I was told Dr can adjust with colored bonding resin, but really now we expect him to shade? Rght
-Has to put in with 3M's bonding kit, so if Dr has different system, they will say that is the issue, even though the flyer says must be bonded with adhesive bonding cement.
-Lastly, the stuff when able to prescribe the 8 shades especially for indirect MOD's or crowns is amazing to cut and polish in under 1 HR

 

[hammerhead]

PCDL

We are useing art stain from shofu. Kit costs about 350 for 16 shades. Best buy on the market.

Mike2, we are right there price wise.

 

[PCDL]

Thanks for the info Hammerhead. The talk of debonding that has arisen always seems to lead down the same path... User error. I have one in my mouth, on a second molar, and so far, so good. I did, however, comply with the manufacturers instructions to the letter ( my brother is the clinician).

 

[Affinity]

and the warranty...??