Is it time to buy a scanner, projet printer?

[Iownmyjob]

Do you guys think i should buy a scanner/projet? I own a full service three person lab. I work 50-70 hrs a week. We do 40-50 emax a month 15 or so FCC and 5-10 FCZ maybe 30-40pfms I've considered a scanner in the past but we are not doing enough FCZ to support it for that. Being able to use the printer to mil full contour waxups should cut down on my labor time, but im still not sure it is worth the cost.
thanks.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

scanner or printer?

I would say the scanner would give you more options. The printer would still require you to get the scanner, no?

 

[Ryan Gottlieb]

I would get the scanner and send the emax files out to be printed, the FCC files to strategy milling, the FCZ files to a milling center and work really hard to convert your docs over to FCZ. You are doing WAY WAY WAY too many pfm's (In my opinion). Get the FCZ numbers up and then get a mill for wax and zirconia.
I would hold off in the printer, but that's just me.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

even if u had a scanner and printer u could do the same pfm volume with better consistency between cases. print your copings in resin and cast instead of waxup. smarter design, fewer bad design, less units with unsupported porcelain.

in short, even if u dont manage to do more fcz u can still use the tech to create higher quality in your existing work.

 

[KentPWalton]

You can always add wax to the designs if you want to change them as well. Doesn't hurt anything when you burn out.

 

[Iownmyjob]

I was actually asking if i should get both scanner/printer or continue to hold off on the technology. I would rather do pressed EMax than FCZ. I need to go to do 2x as many FCZ to make up for one pfm or EMAX

 

[Iownmyjob]

I like the idea of a more consistent product. How long does it take to scan and design a full countour crown. I'm spending 30-45 minutes now to wax and sprue for full contour. I'm just on the fence if the time savings would be worth the investment. It will be about 25k for printer and scanner

 

[CoolHandLuke]

that is a miserably low price man. you must be looking at some cheap as junk printer at that price.

you want good quality prints that burn out easy and a scanner that will accurately determine a margin without sharp noise. for this i would look at at least a d700 which all by itself can be 20k. the 3shape dongle will be a bit more. then a decent printer - well a used dp3500 could be anywhere from 30k-60k, there was a used 3510hd for like 48k a little while ago.

but remember these are about par for the course.

if fronting this cash is a problem then seek an outsource partner who can provide fast prints. that way you only need a scanner. you pay that off fast, and have some coins left in a year or two to jump on the newer and better 3dprinters that will hit the market this year and next.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

I like the idea of a more consistent product. How long does it take to scan and design a full countour crown. I'm spending 30-45 minutes now to wax and sprue for full contour. I'm just on the fence if the time savings would be worth the investment. It will be about 25k for printer and scanner

Dude, on average? a decent posterior single unit takes 5-7 minutes, maybe 10 if there is some weird situation. You can design 2 crowns and they mill in about 15-20 minutes. While it doesn't seem like alot, if you compound many units together, during the milling/wait time, you can be doing something else already.

The mills are getting better, but they are getting better for different materials.

If you bought a scanner and a mill today, you would be just fine. I highly suggest 3Shape and Sum3D, it is a great way to start, with a DWX-50.

 

[Iownmyjob]

Well i was looking at the projet printer I think it is around 5k. That is probably my avg time for single molars... Copings take me about 10 minutes to wax with metal margins and built for porc. support.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

ah, the projet 1200, the mini printer?

well that is a horse of a different colour. bit of caution here, it might be tricky to get your settings dialed in correctly. CAP had a heck of a time figgering it all out.

 

[KentPWalton]

I was going to suggest a 3shape seat or either Exocad for just singles and copings.

Might be cheaper to go Exocad if you want it just for copings and single units.

Then go with the ProJet 1200. Work in smaller batches but get them moving!

 

[RJS8669]

Forget the printer. Get a mill. Mill your wax-ups and your zirconia.

 

[KentPWalton]

Yeah....I guess the mill is more versatile. Just not at accurate on the internal surfaces as the printer.

No drill compensation on a printer.

 

[cadfan]

ill asked some guys with two 3500 MP what are you doing with them ,they print models and implant templates the rest inkl. partials are milled and they build big mills too so the know what to do.

 

[KentPWalton]

The 3500 MP is strictly set up for printing the model material. The software in the printer only allows them to read the print material.

It actually has the capability to print other materials, just need a computer hacker to get in there and break the firewall down to all

all materials. That goes for all the 3500 models. All 3510's have the highest resolution available, just the firewall suppresses the

features allowed. Depends on how much money you wanna spend.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

from nothing to a projet DP1200 is a bit of a stretch, and you will gouge your eyeballs out with the resin material vs wax.

I highly do not recommend this route

 

[TomSinclair]

I couldn't find the ProJet 1200 on CAP's website. I believe they may have stopped carrying the printer.

 

[Iownmyjob]

I couldn't find the ProJet 1200 on CAP's website. I believe they may have stopped carrying the printer.

Yeah maybe too many problems. More im reading and thinking about things I need to get a scanner.

 

[rlhhds]

I was actually asking if i should get both scanner/printer or continue to hold off on the technology. I would rather do pressed EMax than FCZ. I need to go to do 2x as many FCZ to make up for one pfm or EMAX

Our FCZ has a lower fee than emax or pfms but my profit magin is to the roof in comparison. Not the most esthetic but strong and when you figure out how to stain and glaze them they look just as good in the posterior as a pfm. Get the mill we have a printer and 2 mills. The printer has not been used in 2 years, it is for sale. You can mil everything you need copings, FCC, FCZ. Or for now just get the scanner and outsource the milling till you can afford a mill.