Shade matching porcelain

[Ceyram]

Greetings!
I'm dental technician from 8 years & i have use some ceramic systems (Vita Vm13 , IPS Inline , Shofu Vintage Halo)
From 1 year i work mainly with Shofu Halo . The ceramic looking really great (especialy when i mix T glass + Enamel 50-50),but the shades matching with the vita classical shade guide are bad ... A4 is auful .... I buy trial kit from Noritake ex-3 (Shade A2) with hopes for better matching, but the shade was different again. Now i'm asking you for some help ... i need porcelain with best vita classical shade matching ... i may try ceramco ic & VMK master soon , but i need to see your opinion. Thank you!

BIG SORRY FOR MY POOR ENGLISH!

 

[CatamountRob]

Some find it difficult to work with, but I have no trouble matching shades with d.sign porcelain. You needn't apologize for your English, it's just fine.

 

[ts4341]

GC Initial MC is right on... I've tried all those porcelains you have, Shofu & EX3 was always to high in value.. VM13 is a nightmare.. Try GC Initial.. Good stuff! T

 

[charles007]

GC, Creation, Avante, and Dsign match very well.. For easy of use, I would try GC or Avante..

 

[Ceyram]

Thanks for the answers guys ... too bad that GC initial Mc is twice the price of other porcelains & i cant use it (my price for the crowns & bridges is not high enought) .. i think d'sign is also expensive , but may be Creation is at "normal" price ... i will try to find it . Thank you!

 

[paulg100]

you sure its not your build technique?

try firing a dentine or deep dentine tab (say 1.5-2mm thick) from the make your using and compare it to the back of the vita shade tab (the side without enamel)

If it matches then you know its your build technique (using to much enamel or wrong type of enamel, not enough dentine to bolster chroma etc)

to many people jump from one ceramic to another looking to solve there colour issues when alot of the time its probably build technique.

 

[Edy]

Greetings!
I'm dental technician from 8 years & i have use some ceramic systems (Vita Vm13 , IPS Inline , Shofu Vintage Halo)
From 1 year i work mainly with Shofu Halo . The ceramic looking really great (especialy when i mix T glass + Enamel 50-50),but the shades matching with the vita classical shade guide are bad ... A4 is auful .... I buy trial kit from Noritake ex-3 (Shade A2) with hopes for better matching, but the shade was different again. Now i'm asking you for some help ... i need porcelain with best vita classical shade matching ... i may try ceramco ic & VMK master soon , but i need to see your opinion. Thank you!

BIG SORRY FOR MY POOR ENGLISH!

before u leave the ips inline , check out the temperatures of ur oven ,if the holding time and the heat-up time are not adjusted correctly u may get another shades then u are expecting ... u need to play a bit with holding time and the heat-up time

 

[Ceyram]

you sure its not your build technique?

try firing a dentine or deep dentine tab (say 1.5-2mm thick) from the make your using and compare it to the back of the vita shade tab (the side without enamel)

If it matches then you know its your build technique (using to much enamel or wrong type of enamel, not enough dentine to bolster chroma etc)

to many people jump from one ceramic to another looking to solve there colour issues when alot of the time its probably build technique.

Yeah! I try many times ... with opaque.. without opaque... only dentin... with enamel .... with different temp. ... the shade is not the same with classical vita shade guide. Shofu just have teir own shade guide with a little bit different shades than classical vita shade guide ... & if i can somehow adjust the shades like A3, A3.5 , B2 , B3 , some C shades in A4 & D2 it is awful & i can't do anything about it just becaude the color is completly different. I give to my friend dental technician to try Shofu Halo ... the same result ... different shades ... I try it on 3 different furnace's + 1 on my friend ... the result is the same... different shades. I think i know how to build up porcelain & this is not the reason for this shade dismatch I really love the way Shofu Halo looks , but with this shade problem i can't use it anymore I must change to some perfect shade porcelain, because my doctors are far away from me & they are the person who take the shade from patience mouth.

 

[Ceyram]

before u leave the ips inline , check out the temperatures of ur oven ,if the holding time and the heat-up time are not adjusted correctly u may get another shades then u are expecting ... u need to play a bit with holding time and the heat-up time

Actualy i use Inline only with chromascop shade guide ... the porcelain is good , but i find some cheap Shofu Halo set in ebay , so i buy it & start working with it. I don't know how is the shade matching to the Vita classical shade guide .

 

[ts4341]

Thanks for the answers guys ... too bad that GC initial Mc is twice the price of other porcelains & i cant use it (my price for the crowns & bridges is not high enought) .. i think d'sign is also expensive , but may be Creation is at "normal" price ... i will try to find it . Thank you!

Twice as high??? 20g for $27.. WTHeck!!
GC Initial MC Dentin Porcelain 20g refill, Porcelain

 

[Ceyram]

Twice as high??? 20g for $27.. WTHeck!!
GC Initial MC Dentin Porcelain 20g refill, Porcelain

I must see the price list of the trader here , but as far as i remember it is something like 33-35$ here

Yeap.. i just see the price list..
"20 g per Unit
870171 GC Initial MC, Powder Opaque O-A1 59 лв"

1 лв = 1.4 $

 

[charles007]

Get over the cost of the porcelain unless your a production lab ! if you can't match the shades, change porcelain and take a class to learn how to use it......
There's nothing wrong with most major porcelains, its a matter of knowing how to use it.. You want to use a simple 2 powder porcelain to match classical shades.. use Creation, Design, Avanta, Noritake, (Inline has less chroma than Dsign..)
You want to use a beautiful porcelains that tears more, use Dsign, Vita Master,VM13. You want to use a beautiful procelain with all the bells and whistles, use GC, Creation, Dsign,
You want to pick up 4 bottles to match all shades, use GC or Inline One Powder and order enamels to use on your anteriors. and the stain kits to match.
Calibrate your oven, and porcelain with clear porcelain, decontaimate your oven, and take a class...... If this doesn't work, change careers.

 

[Ceyram]

Get over the cost of the porcelain unless your a production lab ! if you can't match the shades, change porcelain and take a class to learn how to use it......
There's nothing wrong with most major porcelains, its a matter of knowing how to use it.. You want to use a simple 2 powder porcelain to match classical shades.. use Creation, Design, Avanta, Noritake, (Inline has less chroma than Dsign..)
You want to use a beautiful porcelains that tears more, use Dsign, Vita Master,VM13. You want to use a beautiful procelain with all the bells and whistles, use GC, Creation, Dsign,
You want to pick up 4 bottles to match all shades, use GC or Inline One Powder and order enamels to use on your anteriors. and the stain kits to match.
Calibrate your oven, and porcelain with clear porcelain, decontaimate your oven, and take a class...... If this doesn't work, change careers.

I got this But i can't compare the other lab's with already established "names" ... so for now i need a porcelain who match the shade guide ... that's all ... i think i will try Creation!

 

[JohnWilson]

I would not recommend Creation as a beginners porcelain to have ease of hitting shades straight from the bottle. Its a very high chroma system that forces you to compensate with the use of enamels to knock down the intensity. in the hands of a master I feel its one of the prettiest glass out there.

For the ability to hit shades with 3 powders on the classic VITA guide I would think that utilizing VITA master would be your best bet. We use it in my lab it has the ability for a young tech to get very clean results with 3 powders.

Like anything else all glass can look great with the right understanding but in a production environment where you can't miss a shade I would think this would be a wise choice.

 

[Alistar]

Charles and John speak the truth. The more porcelains I try the more I like VMK Master.

D.sign is great too.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[charles007]

I got this But i can't compare the other lab's with already established "names" ... so for now i need a porcelain who match the shade guide ... that's all ... i think i will try Creation!

Creation is good and not to expensive,, Like John was saying, it has alot of chroma.. so much so it can give an opaque look.. and that's why you layer the enamels down the facial a little more.. Shades are dead on... I used Creation for a number of years without problems matching shades.. Vita VMK Master will match shades right out of the bottle also, plus you have access to 3d shades .. a big plus.. Vita takes a little work to get use to,so I would recommend a Vita rep to come in your lab to show you the ropes.. One phone call will get Vita in your lab for a day, there reps are top notch..

 

[charles007]

Charles and John speak the truth. The more porcelains I try the more I like VMK Master.

D.sign is great too.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Hey metal free for 6 weeks.. traded my vm13 and Master for vm9... may need to call you or John for Vita help ... and its hard to not use emax ceram on zir though..

 

[Ceyram]

Thank you all for answers!Great forum!

 

[Alistar]

Hey metal free for 6 weeks.. traded my vm13 and Master for vm9... may need to call you or John for Vita help ... and its hard to not use emax ceram on zir though..

Anytime man! You've got my number!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2