Real cost of milling Z vs outsourcing

[BobCDT]

I have gone through the ROI on the Roland DWX50 many times. Here's how it works out.
The mill, CAM and sintering furnace cost about $70 per day (21mfg. days/per/mo) for a 36 month loan. This can be reduced to a out $42 per day if you go for 60 months.
Materials zircomia $10 per/u if you want a good quality material.
Tools cost $1.50 per/u max
Shading materials and brushes is about another $2.
For you, the additional labor is in CAM, putting pucks into a mill cutting out parts, preshading and sintering. This entire process is significantly less than 10 minutes a unit. Probably closer to 5 once you get comfortable.
So, lets say the additional labor value is about $5.
Lets just round the material, tools and labor number up to $20 even though it more like $18 or 19.
Next, simply divide the number if units you outsource into either the $42 or $70 daily cost. Add that amount to the $20 a unit and you have you cost per unit.
For example, finance over 60 months if you do 5 units a day your materials and labor is $100. Add this to the $42 and the 5 units cost $142. Or $28.40 a unit. Or a saving of $88 a day, or $22K per year.
Honestly the ROI is very close to a break even on just two units a day. The more you produce the more you will profit.
One more significant consideration, once you purchase a mill you will likely use it for way more than FZ, resulting in increases efficiencies in other products.

 

[BobCDT]

my few cents:

knowing nothing about CAM will put you at about a year of breaking into the machine and learning what it is and isnt capable of. a year. not joking. during this year you will figure out what zirconia looks the best, what zirconia is the cheapest, what stain kits are the best.

As a Roland reseller we have placed several dozen mill this year. We offer complete training and support for a fully open fully Intergrated solution. Honestly, the most difficult learning curve is 3Shape. The CAM we use (Sum 3D) and mill training is just a few hours. For labs that buy the entire package 3Shape, CAM, Mill and materials we do 3 day trainings. 2.5 are training for 3Shape.
Respectfully, once you understand design the rest comes very quickly. Way less than a year. If anyone want to speak with labs that have made the move ill be happy to provide phone numbers.

 

[BobCDT]

Good points, especially with the machine calling in sick. With the Roland, or any other favorable company milling system, when it does go down, what's the typical timeframe to be back up and running?

Roland offer great support. We (CAP) mill at cost and turn the product in 24 hours for customers that are having a mill problems. It's our commitment on the support side. It's only happened once or twice sine we started selling the mill.

 

[BobCDT]

FZ has gone way beyond replacing FGC's.
We see it replacing many posterior PFM's.

 

[Sevan P]

Hi Sevan , how many milling hours your DWX50 has? Thanks George

Here you go George



Sevan

 

[Sydceramist]

MAN! coolhandluke, if you think milling machines are that bad try doing manual milling!
There is nothing like it, it will break you down to cell not a child a atom haha

 

[BobCDT]

If your at 400 unit a month your cost per unit will be around $23 including scan, design, mill time, tools, materials and labor taking the case to final stain and glaze. This is using quality zirconia, tools and mill. You are way beyond whats needed for volume to make an ROI look really great. Every month you wait you are tossing potential profits away.

 

[Ron.Ferland]

Bob, my milling center lowered my price to $25 a unit from a design, including shipping. Without naming them, they use a very good zirconia in a very good mill. Per your estimate, I'm paying $2 more, plus the scan, design, finish and scanner license. Without any equipment to maintain except a 3shape and no inventory to hold.

If your at 400 unit a month your cost per unit will be around $23 including scan, design, mill time, tools, materials and labor taking the case to final stain and glaze. This is using quality zirconia, tools and mill. You are way beyond whats needed for volume to make an ROI look really great. Every month you wait you are tossing potential profits away.

 

[BobCDT]

Ron,
To look at it realistically you will need to figure out what it is costing you to scan, design and finish the restorations that come back from the milling center. Add that to the $25 and you will have your actual cost. Subtract $23 from that number and multiply it times 400 and you will have your approximate savings.
Here is my best guess on you real cost.
Scan. $2 including benefits
Design. 5.
Post process. 4 Including materials
Outsource cost. 25
Total cost. $36
Total savings would be close to $13 a unit or $5200 a month. Cost of a mill is about $750 per/mo. Quality sintering furnace is another $300 over five years.
You really have a great price for FZ outsourcing. But, the ROI will still work well for you.

 

[grantoz]

we do between 20 - 50 units a day and have done for 5 years buying a mill is the best thing you can do.

 

[Bumfrey]

we do between 20 - 50 units a day and have done for 5 years buying a mill is the best thing you can do.

how many guys/gals in your lab to do that many a day?
just wondering as i am trying out the thought of being metal free.

 

[cadfan]

10 USD for Mat. 10 USD worktime 10 USD engine (16 USD for wathever ) 4000 units per year the engine is payed by 40000 USD in a year by 80000 USD in two, but look for a wet Engine suprinity,enamic,e-max and so on are coming maybe stacking for comfort ,toolchanger 10 up to 20 peaces.Front fullcontur is bull**** it never ever looks as e-max or natural teeth.

 

[disturbed]

reviewed this thread..thoroughly. as a small lab its simply not worth it for me. scanner, maybe..scanner,mill,sintering oven, training,product,tools,.... not to mention my concerns of milled Emax vs.pressed, fczr issues..., and the one sock fits all library. every mouth is different.

i do however see the benefit in milled wax, temporaries, copings, and implant cases. seen the price drop DRAMATICALLY in the last5 years,..for both the machines AND the products they produce...still dropping. I also think 3d printing may be the better choice when it starts to grow and improve. no reason we can't print partials and full dentures. simply a matter of time. i choose to wait.

seems like a good path for production labs competing with China though.

i will continue to outsource to the guys with badass machines and solid skills till it makes more sense to me.