Printer options for high-capacity printing?

[tuyere]

Hey all,
Some bad luck at our lab has ruined a large portion of our printer fleet- we lost a Stratasys Objet 500 and a Carbon M2.
With crisis comes opportunity, though- the Stratasys was always an expensive hassle, and now we get the opportunity to purchase one or possibly several printers to replace that rather large capacity. over 200 000 sq mm of build plate area, to be specific, and we use almost all of that regularly.
We're considering another, higher-capacity Carbon, more Asiga 4Ks to augment the 3 we already have, or even something new. Personally, I want to stay away from Carbon's printers-as-a-service business model where possible, but I can't argue with the print speed and general ease you get there.

Anyways- anybody have any recommendations for rebuilding our fleet? We've had a horrendous experience with Straumann servicing a Rapidshape printer we have so I don't think that's on the table, but we're flexible otherwise.

 

[doug]

I have a friend who bought a SprintRay after his Carbon lease was up. He's very happy.

 

[Toothman19]

HeyGears has an automated printer that will print 24/7

 

[bigj1972]

Damn... Sounds real bad luck. Since you have/ had the money, just do Asigas since your used to them.

Now if you wanna go glam, since you were running all that resin, Formlabs just came out with a 24/ 7 automated factory system. However, you know how that cookie crumbles.

Better to listen to your conscience. You've already been down the road further than most of us if you've had both of those.

But yeah, I wouldn't do another Carbon. Their "business model" alone keeps me uninterested.

 

[tuyere]

Damn... Sounds real bad luck. Since you have/ had the money, just do Asigas since your used to them.

Now if you wanna go glam, since you were running all that resin, Formlabs just came out with a 24/ 7 automated factory system. However, you know how that cookie crumbles.

Better to listen to your conscience. You've already been down the road further than most of us if you've had both of those.

But yeah, I wouldn't do another Carbon. Their "business model" alone keeps me uninterested.

I am definitely interested in next-tier machines that further automate printing and post-processing; normally our biggest production bottleneck isn't machine capacity but labour, one person can only deplate and post-process so quickly, and when there's 5 or 6 printers running sometimes they all finish simultaneously and then there are printers sitting idle for 45 minutes waiting for someone to deal with their finished prints. We can add more machines, but the returns diminish and our productivity per printer across the lab drops as the labour for post-processing gets stretched thinner and thinner.
We just have no experience with these systems and I've never used one so I don't know where to start- Rapidshape seems to make some very slick systems, and I've heard that Rapidshapes are popular as top-tier dental printers in Europe so they're assumably not making clunkers, but our experience with a P30+ was horrendous, mostly thanks to Straumann's support that actually managed to make things worse every time we called. My experience with Formlabs stuff is that it's great for smaller or lower-production labs but lack the robustness/build quality for a lab that's running prints full-tilt 3 shifts a day; things start getting sloppy after a year or two.
Wish I could pick someone's brain who's run one of these auto-deplating, auto-post processing etc systems, they're very tempting but it's such an expensive roll of the dice to make.

 

[DaveId]

HeyGears has an automated printer that will print 24/7

We just got our HeyGears Hive installed today. I'll give some feedback after we have it in production for long enough to know the quality/speed. It looks the part though, large and automated.

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

I am definitely interested in next-tier machines that further automate printing and post-processing; normally our biggest production bottleneck isn't machine capacity but labour, one person can only deplate and post-process so quickly, and when there's 5 or 6 printers running sometimes they all finish simultaneously and then there are printers sitting idle for 45 minutes waiting for someone to deal with their finished prints. We can add more machines, but the returns diminish and our productivity per printer across the lab drops as the labour for post-processing gets stretched thinner and thinner............

Just a thought- why not have additional build plates so when the job is done the build plate can be swapped so the next job can be started ASAP. Stick the one that needs to be deplated/cleaned in a dark cabinet or under UV shield.

If labor is an issue have you taken a look at the PrimePrint solution from Dentsply. Its not fully automated but may parts of the process are.

 

[tuyere]

Just a thought- why not have additional build plates so when the job is done the build plate can be swapped so the next job can be started ASAP. Stick the one that needs to be deplated/cleaned in a dark cabinet or under UV shield.

If labor is an issue have you taken a look at the PrimePrint solution from Dentsply. Its not fully automated but may parts of the process are.

We do this to some extent, and it helps a lot during the crunches when everything finishes all at once, but at the end of the day it still takes the same time to deplate and post-process each plate, and the reduced downtime on the printers means the next jobs come off that much faster- later in the day you're still ending up with techs busy with post-processing while machines are idle. Something that actually reduces the post-processing labour per job is needed to increase production past a certain point without hiring more people.
Re: Primeprint, looks like an automated system that's much smaller than most other ones, neat. I don't see any mention of this, is it an open material system? That's probably another strong preference for us because of the other machine types in our fleet, if materials aren't cross-compatible things get inconvenient.

 

[bigj1972]

Just out of curiosity, what are you printing tons of? Models?
Does your resin come in 55gal drums?

 

[tuyere]

A little bit of everything- about half our production is models, the balance is splints, surgical guides, temps/denture components, etc. About the only thing we don't print at all is castable wax resin.
And no, we get the normal bottles like everybody else uses. We just go through a hundred or so a week

 

[bigj1972]

Must use a tanning bed for post curing.

 

[mmbh]

I agree with bigj1972. Since you have and are familiar with asiga 4k's I'd probably just have a fleet of those. I have the formlabs 3b+ which we run non stop. Prints are great and has been a workhorse for us, but i understand some haven't had as much luck with them.