Pressing e-max over opaqued metal, why not ?

[Adi]

I know it's a long shot, but .. why not !!
I've been doing some reading about e-max abutment solution and I thought : why pressing the e-max abutment, then cement it on the ti base ?!?!
Why not press it on an opaqued base ?
well, not the ti base.
Soon I will have an aesthetic anterior case which is bone level, and I was thinking how to make it really aesthetic lik the e-max abutment solution, since this is not available, and I came with this idea : why not get a castable abutment , adjust it as a suitable framework, cast it then opaque it with IPS Classic , wax over it to the shape of the desired abutment and press . The crown of course will be waxed and pressed later.
I tried it on a piece of a NiCr metal sprue , the result is very good , much better than shown in these photos :

 

[Adi]

 

[Patrick Coon]

The CTE (Co-efficient of Thermal Expansion) of e.max is not correct for pressing over metal (except electroplated copings which are very thin and made from 23-24K gold). It will end up cracking and separating from the metal.

If you want to do something like that, make your custom abutment like you talked about and use a system from pressing over metal lie InLine POM or others on the market. This way you have something that is designed to work with metal and not worry about CTE issues causing stress in your restorations.

 

[Adi]

I believe the CTE could annoy us only when baked in furnace. In my case I have to bake it only once for the glaze firing, with long term cooling I don't think CTE will be a problem.
inline pom is not hard enough

 

[user name]

I believe the CTE could annoy us only when baked in furnace. In my case I have to bake it only once for the glaze firing, with long term cooling I don't think CTE will be a problem.
inline pom is not hard enough

I can guarantee that it will crack. There are many things we can try and sometimes get away with for a while, but you are denying science.

Its not just a restoration you are putting at risk; its your career. You cant reassemble a good reputation.

 

[Patrick Coon]

I believe the CTE could annoy us only when baked in furnace. In my case I have to bake it only once for the glaze firing, with long term cooling I don't think CTE will be a problem.
inline pom is not hard enough

There is a reason we don't recommend doing this. Believe me, if this worked we would be all over promoting this instead of our current Abutment Solutions technique.

And yes POM materials are not as strong as lithium disilicate, but they are just as strong or stronger than Layered PFM materials that we have been using for 50 years.

 

[doug]

Pat has good information. Don't go all mad scientist here.

 

[Adi]

Yes I know it's a little mad, this is why I'm asking why not,
- Ok science says different cte is a problem, does'nt science offer a solution ? Long term cooling .
-

I can guarantee that it will crack.

If it didn't crack out of the furnace, is there a chance it will in the mouth?
-

Believe me

, I believe you, I'm just digging in to have solid information, to gain that, one must be a little mad.

 

[Drizzt]

Can't see the reason for all this . Isn't this gonna be much much more labor to do that instead of buying a Ti base , wax your abutment , press and cement ? Or make it out of zirconia ?

 

[Gru]

Yes I know it's a little mad, this is why I'm asking why not... If it didn't crack out of the furnace, is there a chance it will in the mouth?...

Just for my own curiosity I messed with pressing emax to metal probably 15 different tries, different ways. 100% of them cracked, some the next day, but all of them cracked. Some only cracked a tiny bit, but if you heat it, it's done. I believe the gold coping/electroplating might work but as Drizzt said, why bother??? Very expensive.

 

[lcmlabforum]

I am not even sure if this satisfy GMP to do that . . . let alone not following the IFU that I am sure
comes with each ingot you order.
DO it for leisure, but if it is something with clinical function on the line, let alone your reputation,
why risk it? If it breaks in the mouth and pt swallows sharp fragment, or worse, got aspirated into the lungs, we are not even talking about esthetic compromise at that point.
LCM

 

[Adi]

Icmlabforum : You have put an end to this discussion. Experiment aborted.

 

[dmonwaxa]

I could have sworn this was discussed in an old thread a couple of years ago.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

I could have sworn this was discussed in an old thread a couple of years ago.

it was. the 'full contour zirconia' thread in case presentations.

a guy there decided to show off his pressed emax to metal. hasent posted since.

 

[lcmlabforum]

Sorry for bursting anyone's bubble. I always think of the worst possible outcomes,
but plan/execute for the best possible outcomes.
LCM