overnight burnout

[amadent]

I need to have a very long burnout cycle for the 3D modeling patterns We use. The manufacturer recommends 500 insertion , 15 degrees a minute to 800 , hold for 30 minutes, 15 deg/min. to 1600 hundred and then a hold of at least one hour.
I would like to put my rings in a cold furnace before going home for the night and have my rings ready to cast or press shortly after I get in. I am using Galaxy II from Talladium. Having no experiece doing this I am concerned about cracked rings. Any and all help would be appreciated.

 

[rkm rdt]

Once my rings have bench set, I grind the tops on the model trimmer.

I will then rinse them in water and place them in the cold furnace.

If I put them in on a Friday night, I will put them in a baggie with a few extra drops of water . I then will cast them Monday morning.

 

[dmonwaxa]

Its always a good idea to check with the manufacturer instructions regarding overnight burnout. ome change the liquid to powder ratio when using that technique, check instructions or call the manufacturer for specific instructions. And ditto to what rkm said.

 

[Al.]

I do it all the time with no problems but like Dmonwaxa said check your investment instructions because I dont know if you can do it with the rapid fire investments, regular investments should be fine though.

 

[doug]

This is where Microstar comes in handy. We do a lot of fast-fire during the week, all day long. I will, if needed, put rings in the furnace Friday for Monday morning casting. We don't change our ratios with the Microstar, and I've left a ring in the furnace over the weekend without being in a baggie with water and still had great results.

 

[Al.]

This is where Microstar comes in handy. We do a lot of fast-fire during the week, all day long. I will, if needed, put rings in the furnace Friday for Monday morning casting. We don't change our ratios with the Microstar, and I've left a ring in the furnace over the weekend without being in a baggie with water and still had great results.

Hi Doug, so your using Microstar for both fast fire and regular burn out?
What microstar investment are you using?
Thanks

 

[charles007]

This is where Microstar comes in handy. We do a lot of fast-fire during the week, all day long. I will, if needed, put rings in the furnace Friday for Monday morning casting. We don't change our ratios with the Microstar, and I've left a ring in the furnace over the weekend without being in a baggie with water and still had great results.

Doug, last year I ran out of Ivoclar Speed press for emax , was forced to use my Microstar HS.....Seems like the few times I used the over-nite burnout technique, my casting were smoother...not sure..........Did you see a diffference....
I normally go in hot oven at 1550 F. with pfms.... emax is 1562, I use 1570 to play it safe.
Al, as far as using HS with emax, the mix is slightly more runny. Haven't seen a difference with emax over the Ivoclar Speed, and I've yet to have any bad pressing or split rings with my ep5000....Maybe that's the major difference rather than the investment ?

Charles

 

[Al.]

Charles what is HS ? High Speed? High Strength?

For C&B can you use it both for Fast Burn out and the overnight?

The reason I dont use the press vest speed is because it calls for me to put it in the oven within 20 minutes and not at my own pace/timing.

Also does the micro star investment have a HE (high expansion) liquid for when I get a call for NP.

Thanks

 

[amadent]

Charles what is HS ? High Speed? High Strength?

For C&B can you use it both for Fast Burn out and the overnight?

The reason I dont use the press vest speed is because it calls for me to put it in the oven within 20 minutes and not at my own pace/timing.

Also does the micro star investment have a HE (high expansion) liquid for when I get a call for NP.

Thanks

Al, Itried to take a pic of the investment bag, but it is silver in color and got alot of distortion from the flash
this is what the mircostar HS bag reads
Mccrostar
HS investment
High speed investment for pressable ceramics, zirconia and all alloys (excluding titanium)
rush and overnight technique
ring or ringless technique

 

[dmonwaxa]

I had to call microstar technical a few years back. I noticed there were discrepencies between castings, I followed the instructions included with the investment still had problems. I troubleshooted and determined the fit on the quick burnout were excellent but was unacceptable with overnight burnout, why? Thats when I made the call to microstar and was told thechniques required different ratios. Once the change was made everything was great. Dont know if its still like that today, but it wouldnt hurt to ask.

 

[Mike2]

The Microstar investment is one of the best hands down. The nice thing is Jensen sells it and I think their support is excellent. The investment is all I used for all applications from NP casting to EMAX. It can be run as rapid burn-out or cold oven. I am not sure how it works but I was told the bench set for rapid burn-out is critical to stop the expansion?? Anyhow, Al, that is one reason you have to get it in the oven at a specific time. Additionally, too short bench set, steam cracks...too long bench set= thermal cracks i.e. cold investment into HOT oven. My 2 cents.

 

[amadent]

put my rings in the oven last night at 6 pm when i left for the evening
had the oven turn on over night -came in and cast at 8 am today
cast with great results
for overnight burnout- Talladium recommends after grind top of the ring, soak in a water bowl for 2 minutes, place in a cold oven and set your delay start for when you want to cast

thank you all for your help and input
Al Amendola MDT

 

[charles007]

Charles what is HS ? High Speed? High Strength?

For C&B can you use it both for Fast Burn out and the overnight?

The reason I dont use the press vest speed is because it calls for me to put it in the oven within 20 minutes and not at my own pace/timing.

Also does the micro star investment have a HE (high expansion) liquid for when I get a call for NP.

Thanks

Al think they only make one investment, called HS. No other high expansion liq. needed.
Yep. fast or slow OK.
Fast: bench set 15 minutes 60 to 100g ring, 20 minutes for 200g.
1600F 35 minutes, 45 min. for 200g. I use 50 minutes as a standard, unless I'm in a hurry. 10 min. extra per extra ring...
(According to directions, bench set is critical, hot ring-hot oven, cold ring-cold oven.)
Overnite: cold oven, raise to 570 at 15-18F per minute, hold for 45 to 60 minutes. Raise to 1600... depends on alloy! hold for 30 to 45 minutes. Shorter hold time on small rings, 10 minutes extra per 100 g, or additional ring.

I use less special liquid than directions. Shouldn't be a problem with expansion at all using NP......

Per 100g special liquid
15ml Noble gold type 3 (Ivoclar Midi gold)
18ml Noble Ceramic (Summer in NC..17ml summer)
17ml emax
Can't say that microstar is better or worse than Ivoclar regular or speed investment for emax. (Thought about trying the speed press again to see the difference. Still have a 2 year old box of regular Press Vest.) Just love the HS since its so runny, easier to invest. Slightly harder to devest with my Renfert sandblaster. Very hard investment, maybe that's why I never see splitting, cracked rings ? or just good techniques.
The old baggie technique works great back when I had more working time. Now everyone want their cases back yesterday.

Charles

 

[doug]

Hi Doug, so your using Microstar for both fast fire and regular burn out?
What microstar investment are you using?
Thanks

Al, It's the HS investment. I couldn't give you the ratios, we have the Aquaspense II and it's all in there. We just go to the program and it does the rest. I've taken a ring that sat overnight and put it directly into a hot furnace (858'C),no problem with exploding rings or even a crack. I don't recommend it but it works in a pinch.