Opaque for Fixed Implant Bars

[neila]

Can anyone tell me what opaque they use for titanium implant bars. We have had some issues with it delaminating.
Thanks

 

[JohnWilson]

We use GC products, We use GC metal primer after we sandblast, and steam clean the bar. We then apply THIN layers of Gradia G11 opaque and on the final cure we sprinkle what ever polymer I will be using to process with. This allow true chemical bonding of the opaque to the bar and the acrylic to the opaque. Just one time having to strip a bar will tell you that it indeed is the best results obtainable.

 

[cdtwade]

We use GC products, We use GC metal primer after we sandblast, and steam clean the bar. We then apply THIN layers of Gradia G11 opaque and on the final cure we sprinkle what ever polymer I will be using to process with. This allow true chemical bonding of the opaque to the bar and the acrylic to the opaque. Just one time having to strip a bar will tell you that it indeed is the best results obtainable.

That's a good idea about the polymer, thanks.

 

[ZsoltM]

GC is good!
But I still prefer to use Rocatec to create a mechanical/chemical bond between Ti and the opaque layer.

 

[JohnWilson]

GC is good!
But I still prefer to use Rocatec to create a mechanical/chemical bond between Ti and the opaque layer.

Rocatec is a silica that I thought was used to create an interface to etch/bond. Are you etching the silica prior to laying the composite? I have never heard of this technique.

 

[neila]

Thank for that John, I appreciate the info

 

[ZsoltM]

The answer for your question is in the Rocatec manual....please follow link:

www.3m.com/intl/kr/medi5/pdf/Rocatec.pdf

if having problem finding it, send me your email and I am happy to send it over for you. I tried to upload it, but it is too big of a file for DLN.

 

[ZsoltM]

www.3m.com/intl/kr/medi/medi5/pdf/Rocatec.pdf
correction....typed wrong...this is the correct link

 

[neila]

Thanks ZsoltM

 

[DarrenS]

Anodize it! That won't delaminate.

 

[JohnWilson]

Anodize it! That won't delaminate.

The reason we opaque is not just to hide the metal, we want the material we are veneering to actually ADHERE to the substructure. If the design is a full wrap it matters little but on the majority of cases I do where we are doing a montreal I want something more than just mechanical retention, this is especially true with metallic linguals.

 

[DarrenS]

Between metal primer and the fact that it is an oxide layer with sharp finish lines on the Ti framework, would that not facilitate for a good bond between the Ti and the acrylic? I am asking out of curiosity. Just a theory of mine. Although I am not a chemist, but do use a lot of common sense. I may be 180 degrees the wrong way in my thinking, maybe not. I've got a few patients with this currently. They will be in for hygiene and I will be following these cases very closely. Any input is appreciated, this is why I asked about a hybrid thread. Works here just fine I guess.

 

[ZsoltM]

I would second John on his answer......
My reason is to prefer to opaque, because, my frame design is actually support the teeth itself, and that is require dentin colored opaque.....
I am using the Rocatec system for years now......finishing about an average of 2 cases per week without having zero de-bonding issues!

 

[JohnWilson]

Between metal primer and the fact that it is an oxide layer with sharp finish lines on the Ti framework, would that not facilitate for a good bond between the Ti and the acrylic? I am asking out of curiosity. Just a theory of mine. Although I am not a chemist, but do use a lot of common sense. I may be 180 degrees the wrong way in my thinking, maybe not. I've got a few patients with this currently. They will be in for hygiene and I will be following these cases very closely. Any input is appreciated, this is why I asked about a hybrid thread. Works here just fine I guess.

Darren if I could sandblast the anodize prior to the metal bonder (per instructions) then yes it could work but if I blast the anodize it removes it which I must do.

 

[JohnWilson]

I would second John on his answer......
My reason is to prefer to opaque, because, my frame design is actually support the teeth itself, and that is require dentin colored opaque.....
I am using the Rocatec system for years now......finishing about an average of 2 cases per week without having zero de-bonding issues!

Thats a beautiful bar are you using Visolign on that case or?

 

[ZsoltM]

Thank you. Yes, visiolign was used on that case.