Nobel or not Nobel, that is the question!

[finepics]

Really need some advice here guys. I'm just starting a new position as an "in house" tech for a 6 chair practice in Hong Kong having been out of dentistry for a couple of years since moving here from the UK as dental tech jobs in HK are few and far between! Two of the dentists are C&B specialists, one specializing in implant work and uses only Nobel implants and the other a cosmetic specialist who's very keen on eMax pressable for veneering and crowns and both do a lot of inlays and onlays. At my previous lab in the UK we used both systems and did a lot of Alumina work for anterior cosmetic cases and a lot of zirconia bridge work. My new lab has no equipment yet and we're in the process of putting everything together.

So I will be getting pretty much the full eMax system and my new boss has all but committed to buying the Nobel Light scanner, which is fine with me as I had been using it regularly in the UK so am familiar with it. But he's not familiar with the alumina side of things and the lovely GC Initial porcelain that we were using in the UK is not available here so I'm not sure if we'll be doing any alumina work (in fact my old lab in UK have told me that they stopped doing alumina).

So I'm now wondering if the Nobel scanner is a sensible choice as the bulk of what I'll be doing with it would seem to be mainly abutments and Zi bridges (their Zirconia is so difficult to achieve a decent aesthetic result with such limited shading options). Which other systems should I be looking at or is the Nobel scanner the right choice for a very small lab (just me to start with) where volume production isn't a priority.

 

[corona]

have you looked at the zirkonzahn cad cam? . This might get you all you need , with the exception of a pressing machine . Great company and they are world wide . good luck !

 

[Labwa]

The 3shape will be able to send to nobel in a couple of months and thousands of other milling centres world wide. You will kick yourself like many other nobel labs are doing if you commit to that scanner. I wouldnt bother with anything besides 3shape right now. people say accuracy isnt good enough. i say proof is in the pudding. It works perfectly for everything.

 

[DentalAxess]

Definitely look for an open system without restrictions. The digital dentistry landscape is changing faster than ever before so the need for a system that grows with you rather than growing old should be your number one criteria. In practical terms, separate CAD (scanner and design software) from CAM (manufacturing) by getting an open scanner and software from one of the leading CAD providers (e.g. 3Shape, ExoCAD, DentalWings) supplied by a reputable local dealer. As Labwa mentioned 3Shape is hard to beat with a dedicated team of 130 full-time developers just for dental which will ensure you stay at the cutting edge of technology with regular software upgrades. Then find milling centres that suits your requirements for indications, materials, quality and service. With an open system you are always in control.

 

[finepics]

Guys, thanks so much for the helpful comments. I had considered ZirkonZahn but there's no support for them currently in HK. 3Shape are in Shanghai so certainly seem to be a really viable alternative. I will definitely be looking into this, especially now that Nobel will be taking open files (about time!!). Also there is a lab downstairs from me which has a Cercon MC2 milling unit (and have offered their services) so we'd be able to take advantage of that as well which would be really handy. Looks like I have a lot of research to do!!

 

[RJS8669]

I have a Nobel, Lava, 3Shape and Identica scanners - Nobel would be my last choice...

 

[DMC]

exocad.

Widest range of implant and bar options on the plant.

1/2 the cost of 3shape. TRUE 64-bit software.

Many choices in scanners. Does EVERYTHING that 3shape does, and then some.

Run away from the Nobel scanner. Waste of $$.

 

[finepics]

Mmm, this is not so simple. The real issue for me is if any of these systems, other than Nobel's, can be used to produce abutments on the various Nobel platforms since my Implant specialist only uses Nobel. Looking at the various manufacturers websites I don't see any that support Nobel. If not then I might be stuck with having to use the Light scanner as we can't justify the expense of more than one system with such a small "one man" lab. My priority is obviously not volume production, where costs and efficiency would be much more of a concern, but primarily just being able to make custom abutments and then the appropriate restorations.

 

[Labwa]

3shape and nobel have not yet officially released the details on their agreement but it is a done deal. Which means you will be able to send designs to Nobel to mill. They will have the nobel warranty just like from a nobel scanner.
Exocad wont be able to do the same...yet.

 

[finepics]

Certainly looks as if 3Shape is the only viable alternative assuming that I can make custom abutments on the Nobel Replace and Branemark interfaces?

 

[Labwa]

Every interface of theirs and every 3rd party interface they mill.

 

[finepics]

Every interface of theirs and every 3rd party interface they mill.

Cool, they're at the upcoming China Dental show so I can see it in more detail. Many thanks for all the helpful advice - I can see this site is going to be a lifeline for me!!

 

[finepics]

Nobel or not Nobel, that is the question one last time!!

I'm not doubting the previous posts but just trying to weigh up a few factors as I really need to be fully informed. Im due to start work beginning March and final choices for equipment need to be made this week in order to have it within a 3 -4 week delivery time and get the lab set up!!

At my last lab we chose the Nobel Light Scanner mainly because we were only using Nobel's implants (like my new lab) so it was really an upgrade to the Forte scanner we had, and the Mod 40 prior to that, and we had no need to provide for other systems although we had looked closely at 3Shape, Sirona and Straumann, but back then (5 yrs ago or more) the best option seemed to be the new Light Scanner.

I can see that from any commercial labs point of view the Nobel scanner isn't a good choice and open source flexibility makes far more sense, but for a one system only lab where variety, volume and cost isn't the main focus is 3Shape still the best option? Overall then is a dedicated system better from a purely technical point of view?

One specific question I do have is this; the Nobel Replace platform Ti abutment is no problem since the abutment is milled as one piece, but their Zi abutments are supplied with a removable Ti component and the option to have a retrievable crown or bridge is desirable in many cases. So 3Shape allows the design in their software but does the manufacture of the Replace Zi abutments depend on the milling lab and do milling labs use a similar Ti component, and what is the quality of outsourced milling versus Nobel's 5 axis milling units?

 

[Labwa]

Well if you send the files to nobel to mill you get exactly what you would have gotten out of a nobel light scanner.
if you send them anywhere else it can vary.
Thats the beauty of it. If you dont like a titanium insert you can go to a full zirc option if you dont like that you can go with a hybrid option. It will take a few phone calls to work out how each milling centre does it but the main thing you want is the option to choose.
3shape is by far the best option for any lab. I think most of the bigger production labs and the smaller boutique labs buy 3shape. except for the real geeks who by exocad (which is great also)
Flick me an email [email protected]
Im in Australia and im sure i could point you in the right direction as far as milling options go.

 

[finepics]

@Labwa, you're a star - thanks a lot. Will email shortly. Sorry for the repeat question!! I just re read the previous posts and this had pretty much been answered. It's finding decent milling centers locally that will become the issue as I would prefer to have a local source but not a big headache if not!

 

[Labwa]

there must be some around you. just a matter of talking to a 3shape reseller. they will know. You must make sure the scanner is open though. some resellers sell them locked to their milling centres. if you are in doubt talk to 3shape directly in china. They should be able to help.