How long to Design....

[DMC]

That sounds cool Mark.

Buy me one!

 

[rkm rdt]

I'd love to see a picture of it.

 

[Mark Jackson]

Like I said, "we'll see"

I hear so many BS stories about all these new products and materials that are supposed to be coming out "later this year" only to never materialize, or to be smoke and mirrors until the next version of whatever is already on the market is released.

Look at all the "special" full contour zirconia materials that were supposed to come out at the mid-winter, etc, ect....

It's a game as old as time....

 

[charles007]

Lab Day West is in town this weekend, so I have had a revolving door of manufacturers here all week. I had some Germans here just now who claim to have a $10k wireless intraoral scanner (which is also a small field lab scanner) here by the end of the year.

We'll see, we'll see.......

That's exactly what I hoped to see this year.. a 10K and under intraoral scanner. I believe many doctors will jump on a non-cerec cad/cam solution once it hits the 10k range.
My decision to buy a scanner is looking better everyday... I'm up to 77% all ceramic, still in shock, and I haven't even plugged it in yet, just all talk
I'm also going to bury my casting machine before my next birthday and everyone is invited to the funeral. Y'all come, you hear !

Thanks Mark, last year you told me how few pfms your lab does, that accelerated my burning desire to get away from metal ceramics.

Charles

 

[charles007]

Like I said, "we'll see"

I hear so many BS stories about all these new products and materials that are supposed to be coming out "later this year" only to never materialize, or to be smoke and mirrors until the next version of whatever is already on the market is released.

Look at all the "special" full contour zirconia materials that were supposed to come out at the mid-winter, etc, ect....

It's a game as old as time....

Mark, guess what company in 2010 told me about their $4400. intraoral scanner that was suppose to come out this past Feb. The company is in your neck of the woods. Little hint ... DD hehe

 

[Mark Jackson]

Mark, guess what company in 2010 told me about their $4400. intraoral scanner that was suppose to come out this past Feb. The company is in your neck of the woods. Little hint ... DD hehe

Yeah, those guys are classic used car salesmen. You know, I'm working perfectly and profitably with what we have in place now, and we'll upgrade as things come along that work, and have demonstrated success in big labs somewhere else.

I don't mind being on the forefront of technology, I just don't want to be on the FORESKIN of technology.

 

[BobCDT]

Hi Scott,
I never said you could not print files from the Lava ST. If you take a look at what I said it was all about being locked into lava and or Jensen materials for MILLING.
In addition tolerance set by the ADA for marginal integrity is a gaping 100 microns. So all of these do conform to ADA standards (even though this standard is terrible) If you would like to send me a die I will be happy to fab 3 copings (1 from each scanner) NC. I know you will not be able to pick out the one produced from the Lava ST. Unless you get lucky.
More importantly, my previous post was written to direct more attention to CAD software when trying to figure out what scanner to purchase rather than basing it solely on triangulation dimension. After all, the CAM is the driving force for quality production. When i refer to the term quality I include things like morphology. The current Lava Scan ST CAD software does not provide the capability to produce a high quality morphologically correct full contour restoration in a reasonable amount of time. As a result I would not be inclined to use it for printed wax ups for e.max or FGC's.
Respectfully,
Bob

 

[DMC]

I know 3M is working with Albensi lab who is c4ranking out eMax left and right from 3M scans. Don't ask me why they allow this, but it is happening all the time. Of course I could find a 3m scan/designed out of the rest, unless you have reduced the mesh when importing into open CAM. We see hundreds of 3shape scans everyday. They are nothing like a 3M scan. 4x less accurate.

They don't sell the current Lava Design 5.0 anymore.
Any scanner sold will come with the new Lava 7, or Lava 6.0 which either will be incredible. One is 32 bit, the other is 64 bit. 3Shapes margin detection and marking is poor and consumes a great deal of time, no? Also, it's at the end of it's life being on 32 bit platform.
I would not consider buying a 3shape this year at all.

 

[user name]

What is the difference between 32 and 64 bit? Is that a piece inside the computer that can be replaced, or a software that can be upgraded? All I know is it made Nintendo have cooler graphics.

 

[Tech]

"Some programs such as encoders, decoders and encryption software can benefit greatly from 64-bit registers (if the software is 64-bit compiled),while the performance of other programs, such as 3D graphics-oriented ones, remains unaffected when switching from a 32-bit environment to a 64-bit one. It is unusual for a 64-bit program to perform worse than its 32-bit equivalent and usually only happens due to a bug. " Wikipedia

Source:
Ubuntu 11.04: i686 vs. i686 PAE vs. x86_64
[Phoronix] Ubuntu 11.04: i686 vs. i686 PAE vs. x86_64

 

[patmo141]

It's my understanding that it's like the number of digits in a phone number. 32 bit systems can handle 2^32 different "addresses" and a 64 bit can handle 2^64 "addresses." You have to "address" all of your computer's random access memory so you can tell where to put things and then where you have put them so you can retrieve them later. This is why 32 bit systems can only handle a little under 4gigs or ram. More RAM doesn't always mean faster performance...but in a lot of times it does too. Scott is right in that most systems are moving toward 64bit so software that is already gaining experience/success on such platforms might be a step ahead in the future.

 

[tonester]

The Jensen scanner is an upgraded Lava scan ST. The physical scanner is getting an upgrade that will enable simultaneous scanning of upper and lower cast. In addition, the CAD is getting a hybrid upgrade that will combine the best of Dental Wings and the original Lava software. This package is being sold for about $17K (I think) and this is definitely the best value in the industry. The only drawback, closed architecture. The files will be ULDC (not STL) which will currently lock you into Lava and or Jensen materials for milling.
Hope this helps,
Bob[/QUOTE]

So Bob, this may be the best value, but if you could own only one which would you purchase? Everyone that I've spoken with that has 3 shape and Dental wings ends using 3Shape ad DW sits.

 

[Mark Jackson]

but if you could own only one which would you purchase? Everyone that I've spoken with that has 3 shape and Dental wings ends using 3Shape ad DW sits.

We no longer use DentalWings, and use all 3Shape scanners even for our Lava cases.

Our Lava scanner just sits, but we have to keep it on the network, as the system won't work unless it sees it there, even though the designs and scans are coming out of the 3Shape. It kind of pisses me off, as I'd like to dump it and make a few bucks off it, especially since Scott is such a good salesman for it

We take the COS scans, and pull them into 3Shape, and then mill them, no problem, same as Albensi.

 

[delcam-healthcare]

For large 3D scan file you will likely need the address space a 64bit system provides to fully represent the data. Each polygon on a 3D model takes up a fixed amount of this space so depending on how detailed/small the polygons are you can soon use up all of the address space offered on a 32 bit system. This could result in a slow down if this address space runs out as data is moved in/out of RAM and 'dropped temperarily' onto the Hard Disk as it cannot physically deal with all the data all at once.

Simply put its like trying to carry cargo using a Van (32bit) versus a freight train (64bit) from point A to B both are capable of moving the cargo but the Freight train will do it in less repeat visits as it has more capacity.

Though not noticible on smaller/simple crown and bridge scans, a far more detailed implantology scan of multiple implants and/or full arch scans a 32bit system may start to struggle.

I hope that makes some sense.

 

[Mark Jackson]

Simply put its like trying to carry cargo using a Van (32bit) versus a freight train (64bit) from point A to B both are capable of moving the cargo but the Freight train will do it in less repeat visits as it has more capacity.

I hope that makes some sense.

Excellent explanation, thank you!