Firing opaque on Ti-abutments - yay or nay?

[Pictodent-SW18]

Hi DLN,

we often use Chang's liquid to block out titanium abutments in our Zirconia crowns, but this seems to be discontinued (any alternatives on the market?)

Has anyone tried to fire opaque on a Ti-abutment before scanning?

Any problems that I should be aware of? It could abate the greyishness, right?

Any tips for products are welcome as well.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[LarryRDC]

Nay to Firing opaque to a ti-abutment.....Multi-link Hybrid Abutment HO (High Opaque) cement, or Panavia V5 Opaque cement.

 

[RDA]

Anodize them.

 

[Contraluz]

Anodize them.

Yes, it helps. But you still have the low value appearance. you can get rid of it using the Hybrid Abutment HO cement, like LarrRDC mentioned above. Which has gone up in cost by quite a bit... :-(

 

[Pictodent-SW18]

Hi there, so no one would recommend it? My thought was that if the fired opaque is suitable as an underlayer for a porcelain layering (a porcelain with the correct CTE of course) then why wouldn't it be ok as an extra layer for a Zirconia crown?

 

[Contraluz]

we often use Chang's liquid to block out titanium abutments in our Zirconia crowns, but this seems to be discontinued (any alternatives on the market?)

Are you referring to this?

https://idscad.com/shop/liquid/effect-colors/

Look for the 'White Plus.' From what I gather, this is still available and works great, too. Almost too good, if I may say...

Oh, and a big 'Nay' on firing ti abutments.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

I'm in the nay camp as well. We use the cement mentioned above for all our screw retained crowns. We anodize all anterior abutments to help with the greying out of the crown and especially the gingiva. I also will design our abutments in such a way that enables me to get plenty of material thickness on the occlusion and the facial/buccal of the crown(~2 mm)

 

[ps2thtec]

I believe B&D / Origin also offers internal pre-sinter white liquids to mask

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Hi DLN,

we often use Chang's liquid to block out titanium abutments in our Zirconia crowns, but this seems to be discontinued (any alternatives on the market?)

Has anyone tried to fire opaque on a Ti-abutment before scanning?

Any problems that I should be aware of? It could abate the greyishness, right?

Any tips for products are welcome as well.

Thanks,

Chris

we anadize, use light cure opaque (with metal primer),and panavia opaque cement. complete masking without any issues.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

we anadize, use light cure opaque (with metal primer),and panavia opaque cement. complete masking without any issues.

same here, I've done this for quite some time now with no issues..
but as far as firing Ti Opaque, I'd have to say a big no.. tried that too... love spending time cleaning off the oxide layer, it was once one of my favorite things to do... especially late when the case has to ship in the AM.

the masking liquid looks very promising, for those of you that can mill n sinter.

 

[Sda36]

I believe B&D / Origin also offers internal pre-sinter white liquids to mask

Incisal White #2 from Origin works same as Changs. Shelf life of these products is a year or less after which crystals will start to build up in the liquid.

 

[KentPWalton]

Firing ti abutments from implant manufacturers will also pretty much void the warranty. Firing changes the molecular structure of the titanium. If you have to opaque the ti abutments, use an opaque that does NOT require firing.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

Firing ti abutments from implant manufacturers will also pretty much void the warranty. Firing changes the molecular structure of the titanium. If you have to opaque the ti abutments, use an opaque that does NOT require firing.

yet we fired ceramic over titanium repeatedly on TAN abutments. that is until the ceramic started failing

 

[apostolis159]

[...] or Panavia V5 Opaque cement.

This is what we've been doing for years, never had an issue. I assume other brands of opaque cement will also work.

 

[LarryRDC]

I’ve been liking the Panavia v5.. cheaper than Multilink and longer working times when cementing multiple units/ cases. Don’t want it setting up when you have one half way seated… don’t ask me how I know

 

[Andrew Priddy]

I’ve been liking the Panavia v5.. cheaper than Multilink and longer working times when cementing multiple units/ cases. Don’t want it setting up when you have one half way seated… don’t ask me how I know

im a Panavia fan as well (2.0 haven't tried v5),except for Pfm's over abutments.. for that, multilink.
although panavea is great, I don't fully trust its dual cure process... especially when its bonded and immediately heading down the road for patient delivery.

 

[a3dl]

Are you referring to this?

https://idscad.com/shop/liquid/effect-colors/

Look for the 'White Plus.' From what I gather, this is still available and works great, too. Almost too good, if I may say...

Oh, and a big 'Nay' on firing ti abutments.

2nd this

 

[JohnWilson]

3 things help.

We use white plus
We actually prefer GC G_CEM in B01 (white opaque resin cement)
Proper abutment design

Since you are in control of your design for patient specific abutments you need to plan for not only the quality of the split file to be reproduced by understanding machining limitations but why planning for the units most vulnerable area to hide the gray at the thinnest parts of the crown.

By really looking at dimension and shoulder radius and eventual margin line offset you can get a perfectly smooth THICK margin to the abutment/crown to hide the most challenging spots. Understanding how to selectively apply the white plus internally and how much it penetrates takes some experimenting as you just really need to be keenly aware of any thick or thin areas.

With all of the tremendously translucent multi Y zirconias value needs to be managed more than ever and slapping a dark abutment no matter how shiney the gold anodizing is often yields less than ideal results.

Plan for excellence you have the tools and the products to overcome so many challenging aspects of single unit implant dentistry today.

 

[RileyS]

3 things help.

We use white plus
We actually prefer GC G_CEM in B01 (white opaque resin cement)
Proper abutment design

Since you are in control of your design for patient specific abutments you need to plan for not only the quality of the split file to be reproduced by understanding machining limitations but why planning for the units most vulnerable area to hide the gray at the thinnest parts of the crown.

By really looking at dimension and shoulder radius and eventual margin line offset you can get a perfectly smooth THICK margin to the abutment/crown to hide the most challenging spots. Understanding how to selectively apply the white plus internally and how much it penetrates takes some experimenting as you just really need to be keenly aware of any thick or thin areas.

With all of the tremendously translucent multi Y zirconias value needs to be managed more than ever and slapping a dark abutment no matter how shiney the gold anodizing is often yields less than ideal results.

Plan for excellence you have the tools and the products to overcome so many challenging aspects of single unit implant dentistry today.

I second this. I found out about BandD/Origins pre sinter white opaque a couple years ago and combined with anodizing I have so much more confidence!

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

Are you referring to this?

https://idscad.com/shop/liquid/effect-colors/

Look for the 'White Plus.' From what I gather, this is still available and works great, too. Almost too good, if I may say...

Oh, and a big 'Nay' on firing ti abutments.

Thanks for posting the link. We are going to purchase this product.