4 axis or 5 axis milling machine?

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ivanzo

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Hi guys,

i am planing to acquire a milling machine instead of relying on milling centre.

However, i am in dilemma of selecting in between 4 axis or 5 axis milling machine.

What the seller explain to me is that 5 axis machine can mill undercut crown which i don't understand at all.

hope you guys can share some experience on this matter.

Cheers!
 
Sam-CAP

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Bob Cohen wrote a article on this very topic: Link

Check it out!
 
KentPWalton

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5 Axis! Trust me! You'll thank me later.

Don't buy a boat with a small motor. Go ahead

and spend the extra money on it now and

enjoy being able to ski later with no problems!!

This was a family experience and my brother

learned from it. ( I talked him into spending

more now to be able to pull skiers and inter-

tubers.)
 
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ivanzo

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5 Axis! Trust me! You'll thank me later.

Don't buy a boat with a small motor. Go ahead

and spend the extra money on it now and

enjoy being able to ski later with no problems!!

This was a family experience and my brother

learned from it. ( I talked him into spending

more now to be able to pull skiers and inter-

tubers.)

Hi Mate, i totally got your message. But i would like to know in exact what can't be done by 4 Axis Machine.

i read a lot and they just mention undercut bridges.. but i can't visualise them... pls help....
 
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bigbrush

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Hi, you can mill anything in Zi, Wax, Pmma, if you have the right spindle also NEM. But you can`t multiple axles, with Abutments for instance.
I´m working with a VHF and DS - cam for over 2 years without Problems.
If you want to go with pre abutments (Ti ) and ceramics like e.max or surprinity go for a 5 axis.
 
ParkwayDental

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Where are you located?
 
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sirmorty

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Bridges with terrible a draw angle.
 
zero_zero

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5 axis will only make a difference if you're cutting screw retained bridges with diverging access holes...also lets you tilt the crowns more to be able to use a thinner stock...having said that, lots can be done on 4 axis as well if you know what to do and got a decent CAM software...
 
KentPWalton

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Hi Mate, i totally got your message. But i would like to know in exact what can't be done by 4 Axis Machine.

i read a lot and they just mention undercut bridges.. but i can't visualise them... pls help....

An undercut is a region of a crown that cannot be milled.

Example here. The area you see below the pencil mark (you

can actually see the space that cannot be milled away)

cannot be milled by a straight tool. 5 axis machines allow

you to adjust the tooling to be able to reach the area.


Undercut.jpg
 
Affinity

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Like zero said, 4 axis will mill 95% of what you do unless it is an implant screw retained bridge.. If you have the money to spend, of course get a 5 axis, if not 4 axis will get you started.
 
CoolHandLuke

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ok, 5 axis is a misnomer; it implies there are 5 ways to move a cutting tool or the armature holding the tool. while in many cases this is true, the dental industry has misused the term to make it easier to sell milling machines to novice users.

our machines, such as roland dwx50 or imes (all) are actually 3+2 axis. 3 axis of movement for the tool, and 2 axis of movement for the puck. 5 axis means the puck stays in one position while the tool moves around.

so if you bought for example an Ultrasonic 20 from Deckel Maho group, you would basically get a robot arm with a cutter tool programmed to cut from a stationary puck.

better yet are the twin robot arm machines; one arm cuts, one arm has at least 4 axis of movement for the puck, and allows flexibility like no other.

this is what those expensive mills offer. ridiculous flexibility.

why is it necessary? good question. given we are not in the habit of designing F16 fighter jets and replicating their parts in miniature, to be assembled as functioning minis, this sort of flexibility isn't what is necessary - but useful when manufacturing such items as implant bars, full contour milled dentures, or surgical guides.

but people don't buy Haas or DMG for their flexibility really, so much as their durability and longevity.
 
KentPWalton

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Tyler had his 450i video on here somewhere when he was milling 5 axis continuous.

Looks cool, like it's floating as it's cutting.
 
French Cadman

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5 auto or 3+2 ?

It's different ….
 
Sam-CAP

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You can see "positional 5-axis" and "continuous 5-axis" here: Link
 
zero_zero

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5 axis continuous means that all freedoms of movements are active at any given time...quite appealing visually...but useless, unless one's cutting a turbine or some other complex geometry...

3+2 is 3 axis cutting with the other two axii are fixed...that's what everyone is using in the day to day business...
 
Sam-CAP

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Like Zero said 3+2 axis is also known as "positional" 5-axis.
 
KentPWalton

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Like I said...looks cool.
 
brayks

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Without getting into specific simultaneous and positional multi-axis machining techniques/strategies and efficient cutting tool utilization...

While I entirely agree that the practice (and benefits) of simultaneous 5 axis motion in many dental applications could be argued, I would have to disagree when this statement is applied to milling abutments.

During the development of our abutment machining strategies we found a wide range of cases that would require significant machining concessions on several abutment design characteristics commonly found "in the wild" that would significantly affect quality, machining and post-processing time; particularly when applied to both the emergence profile and the chamfer region.

AxsysAbutmentImage32-600px.jpg

More can be found in the "Abutments" section on the Gallery page of our website.

Relative to the "clean up line" previously mentioned:
Due to a common abutment design characteristics, simultaneous multi-axis motion is required to quickly and easily produce high-quality abutments in timely manner that require minimum hand finishing. Design characteristics include:
  • Subgingiva under-cuts
  • Margin-to-chamfer transitions containing concave regions
  • Modeled retention grooves presenting "less than ideal" manufacturing conditions
  • and more (can't give away the store ya know) ;)
In these cases 4-axis simultaneous motion is a minimum requirement with 5-axis simultaneous motion being the best choice since it will greatly expand the range of designs that can be tackled easily.

Some examples of more "complex" abutment designs we handle easily with our solution are shown in a slide show on our website (if you can get through the first few frames): https://www.axsysdental.com/Implants.html

Of course effectiveness and quality of the product "as machined" depends on fixturing techniques, machine and CAM software capabilities. As with all manufacturing, many times there are trade-offs that dictate one approach over the other. Examples might include:
  • Improved surface finish (less post-processing)
  • Sharper Margins
  • Less tool wear
  • Tool breakage
  • Speed
I agree that simultaneous 5-axis machining can be over-utilized and can frequently reduce the overall machining/manufacturing efficiency. However when applied to abutment manufacturing, the selective usage of simultaneous multi-axis motion can and will help to produce a superior product.
 
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