Hybrid manufacturing slm\cnc. Coreitec 350i pro+

[Adva]

Hello. I want to ask owners of these machines..
Is 350i pro+ suitable for hybrid manufacturing ?
I'v found that hexdent is selling adapter for this kind of manufacturing method, costs about 9k, have anyone tried it?
Thank you.

 

[Affinity]

define 'hybrid'? Are you talking about milling hybrid premill abutments? Its made for that task, but 9k doesnt seem right, you just need a holder and the cam to run it..

 

[Adva]

No, I am talking about 3d printing metal with post-finishing in cnc machine..

 

[CoolHandLuke]

No, I am talking about 3d printing metal with post-finishing in cnc machine..

try here https://www.3dnatives.com/en/hybrid-3d-printers-ranking-030920205/

if any of these look compatible with dental to you, more power to you. none of them look ok to me. 9 of the 14 machines don't offer built in cnc capability, nor metal printing, and the other 6 cost over 300k USD each. i should know, i went down this road.

in case you get the idea that it is as simple as printing a ring around your part so it fits in the 350, sit down. it is far more complex.

i don't know who you refer to by Hexdent, however a quick google reveals they are a Polish company that sells printing supplies and 350 holders. if they have a metal printer they don't list it on their site (that i can tell) or any custom CAM to calculate the finishing toolpaths.

i do know this is patented however, in both Canada and the USA by two different companies. you buy any of the machines in the above link, none of them come with the CAM solution to do what you want.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Mazak for example, the base unit cost is roughly 450kusd, built in kentucky, but Optional extra is the Mazak brand of onboard CAM, meaning you do all the calculations of the part at the controls of the machine, not on a PC. for this, i was quoted something like 15k usd and none of it is useful to dental. you would have to buy the Mazak CAM, AND ALSO buy an offline CAM like Hyperdent or WorkNC to do the milling, with the caveat that neither of these programs come equipped to mill a custom size part - you can mill standard sized cylinders or cubes but not predefined blocks. and for this application you'll need these CAM suites to be able to use your part AS the block to begin with. so this is already a non starter because of the inherent software limitations.

so you've spent half a million now on a machine and software that can work together but not for the purpose it appears it was capable of doing to begin with.

so don't even begin down this road without being committed to losing a year of your time developing the solution you want - nobody makes it and the CAM companies will sell you unlocked software but you have to write the toolpaths yourself.

 

[Affinity]

Sorry I see now in the header slm/cnc..

 

[CoolHandLuke]

DMG Mori however, far easier to work with, however theres a small problem with it. while the onboard CAM will do the printing and milling in whichever order you want, you actually have a fairly worse experience because out of the box the lasertec machines only print grade 4 titanium. medical grade is grade 5 or grade 23. these are a different alloy and annealing process, so you can only produce steel or aluminum prototypes until they develop a process on these machines for titanium or CrCo. the DMG lasertec are over 1m$ each.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Matsuura can do EITHER printing or milling, not both, ever. it is innovative because the single machine can be internally easily switched from one process to the other without great loss of time. but you cannot do both processes at the push of a button.

 

[Adva]

What about imes 650i? It is said that these machines are suitable for hybrid milling. It is said that machine is equipped with 3d probe that measures the exact position of printed plate. What about Cam software- hyper dent has hybrid module, but don't know if it works with 650i..
Actually, we don't need one machine to do the printing and milling. We can outsource the printing part to those who already do it, and receive the plate with printed parts for post-processing. If this works, the cost of titanium bar ( for example) will be lowered significantly

About adapter for 350i.. here it is https://hexdent.com/produkt/hybrydowa-metoda-wytwarzania/ , maybe I am wrong and this is not an adapter for 350i?
Don't know if it is possible to publish this kind of links, I am not doing it for advertising.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

650 is not capable of this. unless it was published in the last 12 months, the 650i probe is just a tool length sensor.

this holder from hexdent is for 350 yes, however if hexdent sells this holder then hexdent must also sell the CAM solution for the holder, so i would be talking to them about it.

 

[cadfan]

scroll down 650 is 350 pro not

CORiTEC 650i series - All-in-one systems of highest precision

CORiTEC 650i series - Powerful machines ✓ highest quality ✓ constant precision ✓ sophisticated metalworking ➤ Convince yourself

www.imes-icore.de

 

[CoolHandLuke]

ok but again, whose CAM is used for that?

 

[zero_zero]

ok but again, whose CAM is used for that?

It doesn't matter, the machine controller determines the stock offset using a probe or other methods... those rings on the pics are there to help with initial setup. It is done via macro's... nothing new, it is common practice in industrial manufacturing for the longest time. Not everyone works from nice puck shaped materials... in most cases halfway done parts are transferred between various machines, there must be jigs and references involved all the time

 

[CoolHandLuke]

the 650's i used did not contain onboard macros or cam functions.

 

[zero_zero]

the 650's i used did not contain onboard macros or cam functions.

It can be also done via nesting using the same references for printer and mill... hence the jig

 

[Adva]

It doesn't matter, the machine controller determines the stock offset using a probe or other methods... those rings on the pics are there to help with initial setup. It is done via macro's... nothing new, it is common practice in industrial manufacturing for the longest time. Not everyone works from nice puck shaped materials... in most cases halfway done parts are transferred between various machines, there must be jigs and references involved all the time
View attachment 37701

So, is there a way to do it on 350i pro+? Any additional equipment requierd ?

 

[grantoz]

is it me or does it seem like double handling why not just mill it.

 

[Adva]

is it me or does it seem like double handling why not just mill it.

because it is about 10 times cheaper, due to minimal material waste and longer burs life..

 

[grantoz]

is it 10 times cheaper if you need 2 machines or extra software

 

[Labwa]

I have not found it to be 10 times cheaper. I have been looking into this solution for 3+ years. The cost to process part is about 80 per bar including heat treatment for example. Then the cost/time to set up, cam, mill would be another 50ish. We can mill a bar with less issues for the same price with far less capital outlay. It will get there price wise but I have seen anything compelling yet. But let us know how you go if you go down this path. It's very cool.