Warning signs of a new client

[JohnWilson]

No matter how slick you are at covering your ass they somehow can find a way to pants you!

Back story:

Very well respected office in posh city by the beach, invites me down to discuss their needs for my services. At the interview one of my standard question is to ask which lab they are using and what is the reason they are looking for a new lab. They were reluctant to give up the name but in the end named a very high end ceramist that I am familiar with. They said they were not leaving him but adding me which I thought was a very smart way to answer my very probing question.

On the initial visit I left all the standard info on the lab with a new account application that mandates a credit card to be used and stored for automatic charging once a month. I get back to the office do a simple BBB check and run a D&B and all looks fine.

First month goes fine, second month we get a tremendous amount of volume from this office and I am excited about the new client. Statements run and we go to run the card and its declined, we contact the office to request another card and give us the run around and say they will send a check by the end of the week, I call on the following Monday to ask whats up only to be promised it was going out in the mail today. I inform them that if I do not receive a check by Wednesday it will be 45 past due and that they would automatically be placed on COD, they say the understand and that they will catch up.

1 more week passes and a few more calls and then I get a letter in the mail from an attorney stating that they are filling bankruptcy, they have listed me as an unsecured debt meaning that I will be last to get paid if I am lucky at all. They have requested all cases be returned to the office with out completion, which I wonder why? They still have an obligation to finish treatment started???? I box them up, and send them COD Cash and they get refused of course so I am out the shipping charges too!!!

Another 10k down the drain, sucks to be me.

 

[dmonwaxa]

No matter how slick you are at covering your ass they somehow can find a way to pants you!

Back story:

Very well respected office in posh city by the beach, invites me down to discuss their needs for my services. At the interview one of my standard question is to ask which lab they are using and what is the reason they are looking for a new lab. They were reluctant to give up the name but in the end named a very high end ceramist that I am familiar with. They said they were not leaving him but adding me which I thought was a very smart way to answer my very probing question.

On the initial visit I left all the standard info on the lab with a new account application that mandates a credit card to be used and stored for automatic charging once a month. I get back to the office do a simple BBB check and run a D&B and all looks fine.

First month goes fine, second month we get a tremendous amount of volume from this office and I am excited about the new client. Statements run and we go to run the card and its declined, we contact the office to request another card and give us the run around and say they will send a check by the end of the week, I call on the following Monday to ask whats up only to be promised it was going out in the mail today. I inform them that if I do not receive a check by Wednesday it will be 45 past due and that they would automatically be placed on COD, they say the understand and that they will catch up.

1 more week passes and a few more calls and then I get a letter in the mail from an attorney stating that they are filling bankruptcy, they have listed me as an unsecured debt meaning that I will be last to get paid if I am lucky at all. They have requested all cases be returned to the office with out completion, which I wonder why? They still have an obligation to finish treatment started???? I box them up, and send them COD Cash and they get refused of course so I am out the shipping charges too!!!

Another 10k down the drain, sucks to be me.

Is this wanna dem "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" stories?

Sorry to hear that John. That really sucks.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Damn John, I'm sorry to hear that brother, sounds like he set you up. It's the second story I've heard like this in the last week or so. See, some days I wonder if I should be a business owner at all because the Marine in me would be like - lets go confront this bastard at his office. I want a face to face, not a physical confrontation per say, but eye to eye I want to see what a swindling lying loser really looks like, just in case I happen to come across another one. Hang in there brother and thanks for sharing.

 

[Flipperlady]

I had one of those a couple of years ago. New account sent tons of work but was very demanding. Would write a date on the lab slip but would call me while I was at guitar lessons on saturday morning wondering where the work was (2 days after i picked it up). I kind of humored him and he rang up a $5000 bill that month. When I sent the bill he again calls on saturday morn to announce that he works for the company and doesn't pay the bills, I would have to send the bill to the company head guy. Got the run around and then made it clear I wanted to get paid. Finally did 3 months later and didn't see any more work from him.....

 

[amadent]

sorry John, the really sad part is we all have a story or stories like this
give you quick one from our lab start dealing with a new doc all is going well- the amountof work is increasing every month, doctor then decides he is going to buy a new practice, well long story short new practice is not what old one was and he stops sending work and payments for work already completed
but he has $ to close office for vacation ( you can take a nice trip for 5k)

 

[araucaria]

I feel your pain John, recently had a whole practice go a55 up on me. Have previously had business partner do the same, and also been sued by a business partner to try to wrangle their way out of paying a debt. Friends in this profession all have similar tales. One colleague went under twice due to non-payers.
Got a punch-bag?
Not the end of the world though, things can be worse e.g. Hurricane Katrina where folks lost everything! You have the talent, skill and resources to recover.

 

[JohnWilson]

Thanks for the condolences guys, the reason I posted this is that I am just trying to nail down a way for this not to happen to me or anyone else. Spurring conversation on this type of topic doesn't happen often.

I have had some bad luck over the years by not insisting on and standing by a solid payment policy. The days are long gone where a hand shake and a look in their eye is enough.

In this case I really thought I did my homework and had myself covered, I guess half way through the month I should of tested the card. It just makes me so disappointed in people and makes me that much more jaded, hell I will get over it,

On a side note we are having another record month, now all we have to do is get paid for it LOL

 

[kcdt]

Did you call that high end ceramist and see if they had any low down? When I was a pup the guy I worked for always called his friends if their name came up with a prospective client.....

 

[AJEL]

Warranty as Per Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) ¶2-315 Particular
Purpose. As per trade practice there is NO WARRANTY OF MERCHANT-ABILITY.
I reserve UCC ¶2-508(1) Right to Cure & UCC ¶2-709 Action
for Price. "Dentist agrees to pay all reasonable collection costs including
Attorneys fees, court costs, and interest on unpaid invoices/statements,
interest on late payments to be 2% per mo. compounded monthly."



Signature _______________________________

Dentists License Number___________________

The above is the bottom of my work contract, I have been successful in IL but have not had a DDS go Bankrupt on me yet. They feel they can just improve their bottom line by not paying their bill. They seem to feel it won't be worth the filing fee (IL $500.) to take them to court (1 day of your time to prepare & 1 day at the court),except they agree to pay the fee. The times I had to go to court, the judge liked that the statement was in regular print above the signature, our small claims is currently $5000. I don't let an account go above that, but as a removable lab that is an easy feat. And of course check your state, except Louisiana most US states follow the Uniform Commercial Code.

 

[GoldRunner]

Sucks to be any of of us, we all have similar stores, it was just your turn. . . Again!

 

[user name]

You will be able to write off the loss at tax time. Its not much, but it helps. Id out the guy. Just because hes doing this doesnt mean hes out of business. Maybe report him to the state board.

 

[Bobby Orr ceramics]

John, thanks for your honesty. It's happened to us also. 2 docs have gone gonads up in last 6 months. cost us about $20K . It's impossible to be completely bullet-proof in collections, but always look at all the good business to rejoice over and not the scum-sucking losers that decieve their way to try and get ahead. Honest businessmen will always win the race in the long run.

My favourite excuse for a doc not payin his bill is "James, I got such a good deal to go hunting in Africa, you're gonna have to wait . " Same guy told me another time " my property taxes are due , so you're gonna have to wait. "

We gave him the boot and sent him to collections as a middle finger.

Focus on the winners, cut the losers !!! That's what winners do, and you're a winner John !!

Orr4

 

[CYNOSURER]

My parents had an air conditioner installed years ago. They paid the man in full. the installer filed bankruptcy. The manufacturer of the unit sued my parents for the cost of the unit. And won. Seems the buyer of the unit is the one responsible for making sure that what they have recieved has been paid for.
I can't wait for a lab to apply this to their collection procedure and collect from the patients of the deadbeat dentists.

Hey John why not give it a shot. Sue the patients. It's not like it will hurt our standing in the industry.

 

[AJEL]

My parents had an air conditioner installed years ago. They paid the man in full. the installer filed bankruptcy. The manufacturer of the unit sued my parents for the cost of the unit. And won. Seems the buyer of the unit is the one responsible for making sure that what they have recieved has been paid for.
I can't wait for a lab to apply this to their collection procedure and collect from the patients of the deadbeat dentists.

Hey John why not give it a shot. Sue the patients. It's not like it will hurt our standing in the industry.

My father used to tell a story ( he had a lab in the 50's) about going to the patient to collect for the denture when the DDS wouldn't pay, now with a denture repo isn't to difficult but isn't John primarily C&B how do you repo a cemented bridge. Although I would like to see the patients face when they find out how little the DDS pays for the prosthetic. Maybe get on Judge Judy lab against patient for nonpayment by DDS let the nation see how much is marked up. I wonder if the ADA would make the DDS pay his lab bill from his hidden off shore assets? Notice I did that in dream blue, we would never get a break even from Judge Judy.

 

[subrisi]

I was an "in office" technician with a dream salary. When we got busier and took on more clients, the lab was moved to a different facillity. As soon I was out of the office, I was left alone with everyhting. Beside doing a huge load of work, I had to do orders, write invoices, clean and do deliveries. I ended up working 13 to 16 hour 6 days a week. I was exhauseted. I thought as a manager I was exempt from overtime, but after a year I found out that I was not. I have to manage at least two full time employees and do mainly managing duties. I confronted him and asked to be reimbursed for my overtime, plus vacation and retirement payments he promised and failed to pay. He just threaten to file for bankruptcy. I didn't believe him and filed with L&I. He ignored them. Then I took a lawyer and sued him. ( forgot to mention that this cost me my job) about $5000 into my lawsuit he did file for bankruptcy and he still owes me $79000. Yes this is right seventyninethousand dollar!!!! He filed almost two years ago and it is still not closed. If I ever get something I will not get more than 10500 max. But I don't think there is even that much money. I know that he worked a whole year to hide money and assets. He hid the complete lab incl. equipment and materials in an ex employees garage. I found that out on accident and reported it to the bankruptcy court. Two years later the stuff is still there and the ex employeee opened his own lab in his garage with free lab equipment. Oh that sucks.

 

[DMC]

I sooo wish I could call out a few labs that owe me more than $10k.

one day....

 

[subrisi]

why is it that you can't name those bast....? If they do wrong, Everyone should know.

 

[AJEL]

Kinda of wish I understood things but the rich seem to have power, in 1976 a group from the IDLA (IL Dental Lab Assn) had a list at the office of deadbeat DDS, but the CDS (Chicago Dental Society) found out and sued to have it stopped, they won. At the N. Chicago Denture Study Club we kept the list going a year or so but the CDS found out and we had to stop. That study group broke up around 85, I still have the minutes just haven't tossed them (maybe should clean out some stuff this labor-day weekend.) I noticed none of my DDS are working this laborday weekend, I have to how about others. I may be bottom middle class but I never don't pay another lab, Scott U must be a huge lab for some lab to owe U so much 10k would break me.

 

[CYNOSURER]

Part of the benefit of suing patients is knowing they won't want to have their work removed for such a small amount. I would think unless the doc is filing and getting out of the business or town losing his patients or even his practice losing patients (if he hopes to sell the practice) would be all the motivation he needs to pay it off. Of course, if John gets one patient that he has to pay another dentist to remove the crown the P. R. from that could be priceless or a nightmare. Fun to think about either way. I wonder if it's a case a lawyer would jump at or run away from. Can you imagine the headache if patients started asking for proof that docs have 'clear title' over the appliance they are inserting! Okay, I guess I need to stop typing in my sleep.

 

[TECHARTISAN]

I personally find the concept of professional bankruptcy somewhat laughable. If a dentist or other skilled professional can continue to practice after declaring bankruptcy they should be forced to continue to pay. The idea that you can file some paperwork and drop your obligations...file another paper and be right back in business should be criminal.

In Louisiana, years ago, they had issues with furniture and electronics stores pumping up stock on credit....having going out of business sales....then reopening under new corporate fillings...They passed a law prohibiting BOTH an owner of a bankrupt business from entering into that same type of business for a period of time....and also prohibiting a business location associated with a bankruptcy being used for the same type of business within a specific amount of time after closing......it eventually got overturned...

But a bankrupt dentist or other licensed professional should have their license suspended and should have to go work as a cook, janitor, car salesman...something else....for a year before they reinstate his license....Yeah I know it will never happen...but it would discourage BS bankruptcies a bit

When I was 19 I worked at a restaurant....the owners closed down without warning....I went to collect my pay...they claimed there was no money to pay us our final pay with...The dishwasher, another line cook and myself proceeded to collect whatever food, knives, etc we saw around into boxes.....each taking roughly 2-3X in value of what was owed to us...as it was not the money we needed for our bills. I realize now at twice that age we were lucky they did not simply call the police and claim theft....but at the time we felt, as I think they did, that they got off easy as no blood was shed.

It is good that I am just a lab grunt....In your position it would be difficult for me to be restrained enough to not to just setup shop in a dentists new waiting room and take what was owed to me from one NEW patient at a time. LOL

I would be hard pressed to believe that the patient who already has a mouthful of your work did not already pay for it....so to expect them to pay again...regardless of how small a sum it is in comparison is in my opinion wrong.