So Im testing out a new printer...

[annsman]

So I did a model with removable die. It came out quite good!! Printing flat, it was a 45 min print. Comparable to my begos.

Im curing in a B9 Creations box. Same as dental, but $400 as opposed to $2000. RioGrande.com

what machine did you use? and what was the price

 

[annsman]

Question, how homemade can we get on digital printing. Is there an FDA or patent line we could cross? I'm assuming the finished product is using FDA approved products and are the same or better quality as traditional made.

Well, for models, they dont go in the mouth, so that's not an issue. As for FDA it depends if you mean the material or the process. Can't use unapproved materials in the mouth, but homemade is what we do. Techs are not FDA approving their hands

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

For clean up and curing I use the formlabs wash and cure ,overpriced but I ]have tried almost everything else DIY and cheaper units just doesnt worth the time and effort ,they work flawless in my hands I wish I had them from day one.

Speed is not requirement for me since everything I need is printing overnight I can care less if is 2,4,8 or 12 hours...lol

I print denture try ins,immediate dentures which are replaced with conventional process denture in 4-6 months ,temp hybrids,models for clear aligners,surgical guides,splints and occasional c&b model with dies (they are not perfect the first try it needs tweaking in exocad or shape but after couple of tries they just fine no complains there) .

So far in my hands I have had Moonray S, Formlabs 2,Moai ,wanhao Duplicator 7 ,Cara, Juell for couple of weeks and probably something else that i dont remember...
I end up with 3 Photons and Shufle and shufle XL.I ll get one of the photon S just to see what is new wit that unit.
For my needs I dont need speed and I dont print a lot c&b models.

I would rather have 4 printers for redundancy then one fast one ......that is just me ...

In case one goes down I grab the printer and dump it in the trash,switch the resin vat to the next one and move one with my day.

I had small issues with the moonray and Cara great printers but when they are down I m screwed I dont need support that cant do crap over the phone and im spending hours on the phone with repair department tinkering LCD screen projector,firmware ..screw that....... I would rather spend time on the front end learn how the printer works and then if issue arise fix it fast or dump the unit .

Photon printer cost less then bottle of nexdent or cara temp material....

If models were requirement i would get asiga max perfect models every single time ,open system super fast for half of the price just get the LCD version that was just announced which would be slower but same resolution.
The new Monnray looks like a big improvement over the old one also.

thank you thank you thank you.
THIS is the kind of info folks should be sharing. spot on and super helpful without trashing anyone or other products/equipment. thanks again for taking the time!!! might pester you more with followup questions!

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Question, how homemade can we get on digital printing. Is there an FDA or patent line we could cross? I'm assuming the finished product is using FDA approved products and are the same or better quality as traditional made.

on printing....i dont see how the FDA is involved. its the material thats of concern, and obviously we need to use the proper materials.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

on printing....i dont see how the FDA is involved. its the material thats of concern, and obviously we need to use the proper materials.

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the FDA is involved to approve the software used in constructing 3d images of existing patient anatomical data for use in 3d printing and diagnostics. not what you build on that data.

 

[JMN]

Question, how homemade can we get on digital printing. Is there an FDA or patent line we could cross? I'm assuming the finished product is using FDA approved products and are the same or better quality as traditional made.

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/MedicalDevices/DeviceRegulationandGuidance/GuidanceDocuments/UCM499809.pdf

 

[PCDL]

I think the big takeaway I have right now is that for $429, I can get prints that rival the quality on my trio of $25k printers... Am I crazy to be looking at an envisiontec or Cara printer at this point??? I could get 12 Phrozens for the price of the Cara... 20 for the price of the envisiontec... Ugh. Really, my criteria for a perfect printer would be:

7x5x6" build volume
Xy accuracy of 50 microns
Z axis of 10 microns or better
Print speed of 50-75mm per hour.

Anyone know where this unicorn is??

 

[basler]

Question, how homemade can we get on digital printing. Is there an FDA or patent line we could cross? I'm assuming the finished product is using FDA approved products and are the same or better quality as traditional made.

Define "homemade"..???
You can`t use materials that go in the mouth unless they are approved for intraoral use as someone else also mentioned.
Many people use homemade clean and wash units which are magnetic stirrer (not bad at all just pain the but to deal with) and nail curring units some of them are better then other most of them dont have temp control so when you are trying to cure hybrid or denture that will be in somebodies mouth the surface layer may look perfect but the whole unit probably was not properly cured as the manifacturer recomended.
I dont understand when I see people having 10k ,20k printers and showing there denture or hybrid that just inserted cured in their nail curing unit from amazon for $9

 

[basler]

I think the big takeaway I have right now is that for $429, I can get prints that rival the quality on my trio of $25k printers... Am I crazy to be looking at an envisiontec or Cara printer at this point??? I could get 12 Phrozens for the price of the Cara... 20 for the price of the envisiontec... Ugh. Really, my criteria for a perfect printer would be:

7x5x6" build volume
Xy accuracy of 50 microns
Z axis of 10 microns or better
Print speed of 50-75mm per hour.

Anyone know where this unicorn is??

You are crazy to look at cara and envisiontec lol

maybe the new moonray pro $6.5k will be close to you demands ...close not perfect lol

 

[basler]

By the way get the new photon S you ll probably be even more crazy lol

 

[PCDL]

what machine did you use? and what was the price

Used the anycubic photon - $429 w/coupon off Amazon. Also bought their dental model resin @$120/L.

 

[PCDL]

Here is the link to the curing light im using. This easily fits models, even curing restorations on the model on an Artex base. Its a really nice little unit, especially for the $$$.

B9 Model Cure Light Box - RioGrande

www.riogrande.com

For part washing, Im trying out a few different things, right now a magnetic stirrer off amazon and also repurposing an old MicroCleaner from Schutz dental (very cool little unit)

 

[FASTFNGR]

Xy accuracy of 47 microns.
Z axis thickness can go down to 1.25 microns
Open source, can use variety of resins
Free slicer software for nesting files
Spare parts cheap and on Amazon
Print time is the big drawback at 10-20mm/hr

This was my test print. Only post processing was wash in ipa and cure for 5mins. Printed with no additional supports, just as you see it.

View attachment 32145

Any guesses?? Oh, and it's under $1000

I already tested it with their own resin, result not that good. I might want to try a dental resin to set the difference. What resin did you use and what wash material and what kind of a light box you used?

 

[PCDL]

My initial prints were done with the green castable resin included with the purchase. I also bought the anycubic dental model resin. See above post on curing light. I included a link.

This is another stress test print I did for fun. The spere is a little over an inch in diameter

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I think the big takeaway I have right now is that for $429, I can get prints that rival the quality on my trio of $25k printers... Am I crazy to be looking at an envisiontec or Cara printer at this point??? I could get 12 Phrozens for the price of the Cara... 20 for the price of the envisiontec... Ugh. Really, my criteria for a perfect printer would be:

7x5x6" build volume
Xy accuracy of 50 microns
Z axis of 10 microns or better
Print speed of 50-75mm per hour.

Anyone know where this unicorn is??

have you looked into the Structo Dentaform? just stumbled across this during my insomnia hours. MLSA with 50 micron XY and looks to have a reasonable size build plate. dont have full specs, but going to get in touch with them today. claims 10 models in 30min. that aint shabby. no idea cost yet

 

[Flipperlady]

Define "homemade"..???
You can`t use materials that go in the mouth unless they are approved for intraoral use as someone else also mentioned.
Many people use homemade clean and wash units which are magnetic stirrer (not bad at all just pain the but to deal with) and nail curring units some of them are better then other most of them dont have temp control so when you are trying to cure hybrid or denture that will be in somebodies mouth the surface layer may look perfect but the whole unit probably was not properly cured as the manifacturer recomended.
I dont understand when I see people having 10k ,20k printers and showing there denture or hybrid that just inserted cured in their nail curing unit from amazon for $9

I suppose homemade would be using someone elses software on a priter I buy at the hardware store and modifying it to do my bidding. I would possibly be crossing patent and material warranties.

 

[HygienicBee]

Been using the dentaform for almost a year now. I wouldn't expect models to be done in 30 minutes. a regular crown model with removable die will take anywhere from 1 hour to 1 hour and 30 minutes. A screw retained model will almost always take 2 hours. Though I can say those are still decent times considering you can still fit up to 16 models (maybe more) per print.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Been using the dentaform for almost a year now. I wouldn't expect models to be done in 30 minutes. a regular crown model with removable die will take anywhere from 1 hour to 1 hour and 30 minutes. A screw retained model will almost always take 2 hours. Though I can say those are still decent times considering you can still fit up to 16 models (maybe more) per print.

so 16 models in 1.5hr? thats not shabby at all and far faster than traditional analog model fabrication!
how do you like the dentaform? make any denture bases with it?

 

[HygienicBee]

so 16 models in 1.5hr? thats not shabby at all and far faster than traditional analog model fabrication!
how do you like the dentaform? make any denture bases with it?

This thing is really a great dental 3d printer. It does have some learning curves and some misprints like any other 3d printer to understand its capabilities and faults.
I haven't tried anything other than basic C&B/ Implant models.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

This thing is really a great dental 3d printer. It does have some learning curves and some misprints like any other 3d printer to understand its capabilities and faults.
I haven't tried anything other than basic C&B/ Implant models.

waiting for info from them still....whats the cost on one of those bad boys?