Zubler variopress 300/emax help

[Gav]

I just got my shiny new Zubler variopress 300 and tried to press some emax copings.

First time: Used pressvest speed, disposable plunger and followed manual to the letter and used the zubler LT 200gr program. The LS2 pressed short. Only the sprues and tops of the copings came out. The LS2 had squeezed between the plunger and the investment and a thin ring had formed. I didn't realise this was a problem until reading a few threads on here.

Second time: I was worried the zubler programs were too good to be true with a final temp of 885C so I programed in the ivoclar settings manually from the manual. Everything else was the same as the first time. The result was exactly the same.

Now, having read a few threads on here someone resolved this problem using an alox plunger. I'm guessing the sensor in the the oven 'thinks' the press is complete because the material is coming back up between the investment and diposable plunger. It was a very thin layer BTW, so nothing major.

Anyone have any ideas other than the plunger issue?
Also, I can't find anywhere in the manual or their site how you calibrate this furnace.

I just remembered something. Our usual burnout oven broke yesterday and we had to use an old one. Could the issue possibly be linked to a calibration issue of that oven?

Sorry for the long post.
Gav

P.S. The reaction layer using the zubler program was much less than using the ivoclar parameters.

 

[charles007]

Calibrate your burnout oven, it could easily be off 75 degrees or more, and I bet this is your problem.. I would also use Zubler's program with emax rather than Ivoclar's.

 

[user name]

It sounds like you just took it out of the box, plugged it in and went for it...? You need to spend a couple minutes on the phone before you use it with the Zubler staff and do the initial set up. There are parameters that need to be set. Its not out of the box ready.

 

[Zubler USA]

I just got my shiny new Zubler variopress 300 and tried to press some emax copings.

First time: Used pressvest speed, disposable plunger and followed manual to the letter and used the zubler LT 200gr program. The LS2 pressed short. Only the sprues and tops of the copings came out. The LS2 had squeezed between the plunger and the investment and a thin ring had formed. I didn't realise this was a problem until reading a few threads on here.

Second time: I was worried the zubler programs were too good to be true with a final temp of 885C so I programed in the ivoclar settings manually from the manual. Everything else was the same as the first time. The result was exactly the same.

Now, having read a few threads on here someone resolved this problem using an alox plunger. I'm guessing the sensor in the the oven 'thinks' the press is complete because the material is coming back up between the investment and diposable plunger. It was a very thin layer BTW, so nothing major.

Anyone have any ideas other than the plunger issue?
Also, I can't find anywhere in the manual or their site how you calibrate this furnace.

I just remembered something. Our usual burnout oven broke yesterday and we had to use an old one. Could the issue possibly be linked to a calibration issue of that oven?

Sorry for the long post.
Gav

P.S. The reaction layer using the zubler program was much less than using the ivoclar parameters.

Gav,

Sounds more like a process issue, but eitherway we want you to be successful. Please give us a all at 972-600-9187. We will help you with this.

Chris Wilson
Zubler USA

 

[Zubler USA]

Hi Gav, I just reviewed some old posts. I realize you are in Italy. Please send a private message with your contact information and I will have a specialist call you.

Regards,
Chris Wilson
Zubler USA

 

[cheadlemick]

Gav did you use the ivoclar rings?

I just got my shiny new Zubler variopress 300 and tried to press some emax copings.
Because the disposable plungers are too narrow!
First time: Used pressvest speed, disposable plunger and followed manual to the letter and used the zubler LT 200gr program. The LS2 pressed short. Only the sprues and tops of the copings came out. The LS2 had squeezed between the plunger and the investment and a thin ring had formed. I didn't realise this was a problem until reading a few threads on here.

Second time: I was worried the zubler programs were too good to be true with a final temp of 885C so I programed in the ivoclar settings manually from the manual. Everything else was the same as the first time. The result was exactly the same.

Now, having read a few threads on here someone resolved this problem using an alox plunger. I'm guessing the sensor in the the oven 'thinks' the press is complete because the material is coming back up between the investment and diposable plunger. It was a very thin layer BTW, so nothing major.

Anyone have any ideas other than the plunger issue?
Also, I can't find anywhere in the manual or their site how you calibrate this furnace.

I just remembered something. Our usual burnout oven broke yesterday and we had to use an old one. Could the issue possibly be linked to a calibration issue of that oven?

Sorry for the long post.
Gav

P.S. The reaction layer using the zubler program was much less than using the ivoclar parameters.

 

[Gav]

User name, I did the initial set up as per the manual.

Thanks Chris, you have a PM.

Mick, no I didn't. I used the red ring that came with the oven. I bought the ivoclar kit yesterday including the alox plungers. Let's see what happens.

 

[Gav]

Just to let you all know I resolved the issue.

I bought the ivoclar rings, checked all parameters on the oven and changed spruing technique.
I also realised that the clear tube had come away from the pump so I was getting no vacuum. It was under the bench and I didn't notice.
Thanks all for the help especially Chris from Zubler USA. I don't even live in the same continent and he bent over backwards to help me. (the guy from Germany didn't call BTW, USA 1 Europe 0 )

Gav

 

[Affinity]

where are you in europe gav?
I just bought a zubler also, but havent used it yet..

 

[Gav]

Affinity I'm in Torino, Italy.
The guy from Germany called today. He was really helpful and told me some stuff i didn't know.
The furnace is great for porcelain and pressing now. I love it.
The help from the Zubler folks has been second to none. Thank you.
Gav

 

[Affinity]

did you get the 300.e upgrade?

 

[Gav]

It already had the new firmware in it. The German guy had me check the software version whilst on the phone.

 

[cheadlemick]

i bought a brand new Zubler only to discover the upgraded software was a further £400! Also for all the precision Zubler bang on about the fascia isnt on straight and why can you only have a maximum of ten mins dry time?

 

[Zubler USA]

Cheadlemick,

Nice to hear you have an oven. If you can email me a picture of the fascia, I will see if it needs replacing. Was it damaged in shipping?

 

[user name]

Way back when I first recieved mine, I also thought something wasnt done straight...only to realize the combination of my bench light angle and the contact lens style depressions in the glass on the front of my touch panel made things look wacky.

 

[subrisi]

That is why I gave up on the Zubler. I hat a ton of those extreme short presses and ended up eliminating the sensor press and pressed by time only. I had two weeks of HELL and 18 hour work days to be able to get the work done but ended up cancelling more than one due date and lost a client over it. Never again a Zubler for me. Go with an EP 5000 and nop more headaches

 

[Zubler USA]

Subrisi, Do you still have the oven?

 

[cheadlemick]

No not damaged! just out of line dont worry it will be fine,but i was rather surprised at the cost of the software upgrade!

Cheadlemick,

Nice to hear you have an oven. If you can email me a picture of the fascia, I will see if it needs replacing. Was it damaged in shipping?

 

[Zubler USA]

I understand. It seems like a lot. But the advantage outways the expense and our development time must be recoverred. It was not an easy set of cycles to develop. Not only did we cut the cycle time in half, we had to offset the differrence in thermal mass from one investment to the other as well as the materials used, all of that and eliminate the reaction layer. Consider the time savings; not only do we cut the cycle time in half, you no longer need an acid bath, so you save the cost of the acid as well as the time it is in the bath. Easier to finish with better surface texture. I hope you choose to get it. We have a lot of labs in the U.S. using it that were also tough to convince. Since they purchased the upgrade, they have been very pleased. Anyway up to you. If there is anything we can do to help, just let us know.

No not damaged! just out of line dont worry it will be fine,but i was rather surprised at the cost of the software upgrade!

 

[cheadlemick]

don't get me wrong Zubler it presses beautifully i am still working through how best to fire certain things and i would like the option to delay the platform rise to dry out glazes! The propress seems to be a bit more versatile for some things! One thing i don't like as much is the pressing platform, its too fiddly for placing the ring on!