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wax coping production

Discussion in 'Fixed' started by user name, Sep 28, 2010.

  1. user name
    Question

    user name Well-Known Member Donator

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    I create my patterns by wraping the dies with casting wax sheets. They give very good consistency on wall thickness. Depending on the mfrg and the particular box, the thickness can vary alittle so I have to order more than Ill use and measure the sheets rather than just grab n' go. Usually either 26 or 28 ga. gives a 3-3.5 mm casting. THE QUESTION: I do have a dip pot, but got quickly frustrated. Is this the predominant way of production, and what wax do you like? Ive seen many adds for different dips, and have heard that one quality-type guy uses a regular carving type inlay wax with good results.
  2. AL1

    AL1 Member

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    I use renfert`s dipping wax in a digital hot pot. It is fast and never problems. I do add regular carving wax where it appears thin and for lingual collars.
  3. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    Those are pretty thick castings aren't they? I guess you really mean .3 -.35 mm popcorn
  4. Gdentallab

    Gdentallab Member

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    i don't like dipping! I prefer to use the inlay wax directly, and the best is whipmix, even no need for marginal wax.
    You may say the old traditional way.
    Sometimes i use keystone inlay wax, and renfert marginal wax.
    I think i get better fitting results than with dipping.
  5. araucaria
    Relaxed

    araucaria Balanced Staff Member Donator

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    anyone here tried a pressure former with flexible burnout material (similar to bleaching tray material)?
    up to 20 copings at a time and only the margins to add after cutout.
    It gives an even and controlled thickness but takes a little practice to get the best from the technique.
  6. Al.

    Al. Well-Known Member

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    IMO dipping wax is better in the dip pot rather than reg carving wax. The dipping wax is platisticized (if that is a word). It dosent break easy, it has memory, and it dips more evenly.

    I set my pot temp around 160 so I get a fairly even .5 thickness except for the edges that I have to add on to. You need to play with the temp till you get a even coat with the wax you use.
    If you have alot of irregular areas, first flow some wax there with your
    spatula then dip.

    Dip it slowly from an angle just past the margins hold it half a second then remove it. You can remove it in a way that will minimize the drop left also.

    One negative is it can leave voids underneith in sharp V type areas and on shoulder margins so you need to heat those areas with your wax tip till the air bubble comes up.

    I used to hand wax with a bunsen burner and inlay wax for years, and was pretty fast, but when I got the dip pot it cut my waxing time in half.
  7. DMC
    No Mood

    DMC wheeeeeeeee!!! Donator Sponsors

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    Maintaining a consistant tempurate of both Die and wax will give best results. Dipping wax is awesome for the reasons Al mentioned.

    I use an overhead light to heat dies to around 80F or more before dipping, otherwise you get trapped air due to wax freezing on surface of die too fast. I never got any trapped air anywhere.

    I worked at a lab where a lady sat on her dies before dipping! No Chit!:D

    Wrapping a die with baseplate wax or any sheet wax is insane on so many levels IMO.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
  8. Al.

    Al. Well-Known Member

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    Hey thats a great idea, Im going to try it next Mon. Not sitting on them but using a light.
  9. rkm rdt
    Artistic

    rkm rdt Well-Known Member Donator

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    "I worked at a lab where a lady sat on her dies before dipping! No Chit!"

    I think the term is "Butt" margin:drum:
  10. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    Putting dies where the sun dont shine? Lets hope they dont develop a problem with gassing. heh heh heh.
  11. user name
    Question

    user name Well-Known Member Donator

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    Wrapping a die with baseplate wax or any sheet wax is insane on so many levels IMO.[/QUOTE]

    What are some of the flaws? It takes about 5-7 minutes, even thickness ~ + or - 3 tenths, depending on the wax, super tight adaptation. You still have to build up cusps and support, but thats with any technique. The only thing I think could be improved, and thats what Im looking for, would be to reduce the time.
  12. user name
    Question

    user name Well-Known Member Donator

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    By = or -3 tenths, I meant its accurate every time, and can be dialed in as desired...not a tollerance factor of .3.
  13. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    How many layers of 26 or 28g sheeted wax does it take to achieve 3-3.5mm thickness?

    Ok Ok you win. but there is a difference between 3-3.5mm and .3-.35mm just so you know. Dont say I didnt warn ya.:D
  14. thewhitelab

    thewhitelab Member

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    I also use a dipping technique, although sitting on the dies sounds wonderful i find dipping the die then removing the first wax coping (recycling this one) then re-dipping works well for me
  15. DMC
    No Mood

    DMC wheeeeeeeee!!! Donator Sponsors

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    What are some of the flaws? It takes about 5-7 minutes, even thickness ~ + or - 3 tenths, depending on the wax, super tight adaptation. You still have to build up cusps and support, but thats with any technique. The only thing I think could be improved, and thats what Im looking for, would be to reduce the time.[/QUOTE]

    Bending wax into shape is a terrible idea. Wax is a terrible material to begin with, and you are just asking for a heap of trouble by trying to cold roll your own wax copings onto a die. You might think its working for ya, but you are one of a kind there with that technique. There is going to be crazy stress built up just waiting to spring into action in your copings. Add a little heat and.....BOING! like a spring. Dipping has a more uniform tension in the wax material causing somewhat predictable shrinkage/expansion when modeling your wax into shape with hot tools/more wax. You method could have surfaces moving all over the place when you heat/cool.
  16. amadent

    amadent http://amadent.net/Home.p

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    wax coping production- for me there is only one way to go
    scan all my single dies in my dental wings, let them be wax printed @ .o4 mm
    sprue them, invest them and cast
    simple and beautiful results every time

    anyone intrested please email at amadent@aol.com
  17. Al.

    Al. Well-Known Member

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    That wouldnt help me at all for pfms, they are so fast to wax, like 5 minutes a peice but what is killing me is waxing all the full contour crowns for press and stain emax and the Bicuspids where I cut back the facial for layering.
  18. charles007

    charles007 Well-Known Member

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    Al,
    At the Atlanta show I watched the rep at the xPdent table wax a full contour molar in less than 5 minutes using their Gnathoflex molds. She didn't know the buccal from the lingual ! just fast and expensive to buy. Some labs are using these for full contour zirconia rather than designing with the scanners software.

    Wax coping production :
    With a good digital wax pot , good dipping wax, and wax calibers, its rather foolish to wax coping any other way....
    Coordinate your die spacer color to your dip wax color so you can see the thin spots easier, and a red or blue pencil on the margins. Reseal margin with the same color as your dipping wax, or use dip wax to reseal, that way it will keep you from waxing the marginal areas to thick. Actually dipping wax works great to resale the margins, it gives your wax patterns a snap ! when you lift off.....
    Any more tips, will need to bill you ........haha
    Charles
  19. tincho73

    tincho73 New Member

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    My technique has changed in the last few days, i used to use the dipping way, whit Renfert dip wax, then cut at 0.5 mm +/- from the margin, and then use Tecnodent ( a local brand from Argentina) margin wax. The problen is that the inner surface wasn´t smooth , there were son spots where air was trapped and some were the dip wax didnt copy very well the surface , and you could notice some kind of interface between the waxes ( I guess maybe i was doing something wrong) That way took me 6-8 minutes for each coping. Casting fits was ok
    Now i´m using a different approach, first of all i use margin wax to seal all the margin area , then wax over it and the full surface with Whip Mix casting wax , and took 7 minutes each coping. Inner surface is very smooth and there are no interfaces between the waxes. Castings fit very well , better than before ( investment technique remains the same.

    Regards

    Martin
  20. amadent

    amadent http://amadent.net/Home.p

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    Glidewell has a good silicone occusal mold kit
    nice anatomy, cost is ok , i think $199

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