using two small ingots in one ring

[paulg100]

Hi

Im due to press my first case with my shiney new ep3000 tomorrow and would really appreciate some clarification on a couple of points:

1. is it ok to use two small ingots in a ring instead of one large? the ivoclar manual sais no but im sure i read somewhere on here that this is being done without issue.

2. die spacer - to use or not to use? the case im pressing is a mixture of implant and regular crowns. Ive used pico plast resin for the implant copings which are snug now, will these be ok or even loosen slightly after pressing?

any help much apprciated

thanks.

 

[JohnWilson]

Hi

Im due to press my first case with my shiney new ep3000 tomorrow and would really appreciate some clarification on a couple of points:

1. is it ok to use two small ingots in a ring instead of one large? the ivoclar manual sais no but im sure i read somewhere on here that this is being done without issue.

Yes you can use 2 small ingots, weather it says yes in the manual I am not sure but we have done it hundreds of times with EMAX

2. die spacer - to use or not to use? the case im pressing is a mixture of implant and regular crowns. Ive used pico plast resin for the implant copings which are snug now, will these be ok or even loosen slightly after pressing?

We use removable spacer on all of our pressed glass. A word of warning if you are pressing multiple units in a ring which has both wax patterns and a combination of wax and resin patterns make sure you use an investment that is suitable for it and make darn sure you two stage the burnout to take stress off the ring. As you may or may not know the resin will expand before it slumps and if you burn it out too fast you can stress the ring and make a micro fracture that can cause the ring to split. Your new oven has a good crack detector but why risk it.

any help much apprciated

thanks.

your welcome

 

[Al.]

Paul I guess I missed seeing in the manual about not using 2 ingots.
Ive been using 2 small ingots trouble free for 4 yrs. I do it every week because I only have 7 small rings so often I cram as many units as I can into large rings.

Otherwise I would need to have both 5 pc and 3 pc tubes for every shade.

 

[Al.]

John I use the 2 stage burnout with a 10 degree F temp increase.

I always hear about people having cracked rings or finns etc, some of that may be caused from rushing when the regular investment.

 

[Toast]

I've done just as others have stated above with no problems. I've also cut ingots in half before and pressed one and a half ingots if I'm just over the wax weight limit to save on material.

 

[paulg100]

thanks for all your help.

Somewhere it said about use exclusively single ingots, mabey its there way of trying to sell more

John: Thanks for the heads up on the resin. Now the thing with Piku Plast (bredent),Its designed to colapse in on its self during burn out rather than expanding, which is unique to this resin.In theory this SHOULD not have the same problems as other pattern resins. Implant guys keep raving about this stuff at lectures. I havnt used it for burning out yet, only for making location jigs, ill post how it goes.

Ive also made sure ive covered the resin in wax just incase.

Other than that i was only aware that the other norm with resin is a slightly longer burn out.

I will be using the ivoclar pressvest speed btw.

 

[user name]

TOAST!! What are you using to cut the ingots? Ive had another idea but havent yet tried it...Im a small lab so I often press single crowns. After their cut off I mark the shade on the ingot and toss in a box...Ive thought of slightly reducing the diameter on my diamond disk model trimmer and repressing them. Anyone tried to re-press old ingots?

 

[Al.]

TOAST!! What are you using to cut the ingots? Ive had another idea but havent yet tried it...Im a small lab so I often press single crowns. After their cut off I mark the shade on the ingot and toss in a box...Ive thought of slightly reducing the diameter on my diamond disk model trimmer and repressing them. Anyone tried to re-press old ingots?

The challenge is going to be reducing the the used ingot without reducing your finger tips.

 

[charles007]

Correction,
You can only press one ingot, whether it be one small, or one large ingot.You're not suppose to stack ingots on top of each other. If you do, there may be a seam between the two ingot in the pressing sycle.....
This was told to me first hand from Ivoclar today......

 

[Northman]

I have been reading this forum for a time and I really love it,the way you people share your experiences,way of working,solutions,and pictures of different cases.It´s really helpful and inspiring!Thanks!

I use two small ingots sometimes,never had any problems,but have been told to sandblast off the black markings on the first ingot.Anyone know if that really is necessary?

 

[Clear Precision Dental]

This was a question I wanted to ask! You guys are great! The manual does say only one small ingot or one large ingot... BUT, I trust you guys. I had to divide some of my rings up because I was too much for one and did not want to waste the other. I will try this when I am in that middle zone again !!!

(I, too, think I would blast off the info of the first ingot in... wouldn't want a black streak somewhere in the crown .... why chance it?)

Again, you guys rock !!

 

[charles007]

I've heard several techs say they used 2 small ingots, or one small plus a leftover ingot instead of using one large ingot. Has anyone had problems using 2 ingots, ever ?

 

[Toast]

TOAST!! What are you using to cut the ingots? Ive had another idea but havent yet tried it...Im a small lab so I often press single crowns. After their cut off I mark the shade on the ingot and toss in a box...Ive thought of slightly reducing the diameter on my diamond disk model trimmer and repressing them. Anyone tried to re-press old ingots?

The challenge is going to be reducing the the used ingot without reducing your finger tips.

ha ha, the fingers do get warm. Doing this was a lot easier for the original Empress!! I'm not sure exactly what diamond disc it is but its about 1 to 1 1/2 inches in diameter and coarse grit on both sides (Axis I think). I score in all the way around and then slowly start cutting towards the center from all around until it snaps. Takes no more than 2-3 minutes.

I have tried repressing ingots.....kind of. I've done what you've said and saved and marked pressed ingots. If I have a ring that weighs say a little over the max (7.5) I'll put a new ingot in first and the old in last. This way its all new material going into the crown and the old pressed material is just allowing me to press to the end of the crown avoiding a short press. I don't do it a lot but it's always worked, comes in handy when you've forgotten to order a sleeve of ingots.

 

[Al.]

This was a question I wanted to ask! You guys are great! The manual does say only one small ingot or one large ingot... BUT, I trust you guys. I had to divide some of my rings up because I was too much for one and did not want to waste the other. I will try this when I am in that middle zone again !!!

(I, too, think I would blast off the info of the first ingot in... wouldn't want a black streak somewhere in the crown .... why chance it?)

Again, you guys rock !!

I never have worried about the lettering I cant imagine they would put something on their ingots that would contaminate the crowns.
I imagine it burns up the second heat hits it.

 

[Al.]

I've heard several techs say they used 2 small ingots, or one small plus a leftover ingot instead of using one large ingot. Has anyone had problems using 2 ingots, ever ?

Charles I do it everyweek.
I think what they told you may be a cover their ass thing?
As far as the seam you get it everytime you press a bridge when the material from each sprue meets in the pontic area.

 

[sixonice]

I have been reading this forum for a time and I really love it,the way you people share your experiences,way of working,solutions,and pictures of different cases.It´s really helpful and inspiring!Thanks!

I use two small ingots sometimes,never had any problems,but have been told to sandblast off the black markings on the first ingot.Anyone know if that really is necessary?

Yes, I do lightly sandblast the printer ink of the bottom ingot to eliminate any chance of a streak in a pressing. For something that takes literally 5 seconds, it is just added "piece of mind". This may sound elementary, but if you press 2 smalls you must press that in a large ring, as well as you can press 1 small in a large ring if that is deemed as a wise choice.

 

[Al.]

Yes, I do lightly sandblast the printer ink of the bottom ingot to eliminate any chance of a streak in a pressing. For something that takes literally 5 seconds, it is just added "piece of mind". This may sound elementary, but if you press 2 smalls you must press that in a large ring, as well as you can press 1 small in a large ring if that is deemed as a wise choice.

Sand blasting the shade off is ok if your pressing a couple of rings but if you load your furnace with rings, mabey 30 units and multiple shades of HO,MO,LT and HT,10 to 15 ingots with out the shade printed on it can get very confusing.

 

[PGguy]

My $0.02...

I remember reading in the Zirpress Instructions Manual that you can stack 2 ingots because they don't have Large. I have stacked many of times.

 

[paulg100]

Seems safe to say that stacking 2 ingots is not a problem.

I imagine Ivoclar are just covering them selves with this in the manual as the possibilty of a seam in the press does sound logical.

Im kinda lucky (or unlucky depending on your view ) that i have an inlab system for all the small cases so i wont be investing/pressing smaller jobs. I got the press for multi anterior work so ill probably be using large ingots more anyway.

Still handy to know that this will be ok.

 

[user name]

My $0.02...

I remember reading in the Zirpress Instructions Manual that you can stack 2 ingots because they don't have Large. I have stacked many of times.

Its a small detail, but the zirpress is e.max in name only...its not lithium disilicate like they were talking about, but point taken. You all realize what Ivoclar is going to do if we all get too thrifty on using up the mass of our ingots...raise prices. Maybe if someone from the factory were to read this they would consider either selling a variety of ingot sizes (boo),or starting a used ingot buy-back (yea). Where does that stuff come from anyway?