Tizian Cut5 Smart vs Coritec 450i & VHF vs Sum3D & Preform NT trading

[CADCAM]

Hi everyone,

1- Any differences between the Tizian Cut5 Smart and The CORiTec 450i? Which ones superior and why?

2- The Tizian comes with VHF software so now I'am trying to understand the difference between the VHF Cam software vs SUM 3D? What can I do with SUM 3D the I cannot do with VHF?

3- I'm interested in milling Preform abutments from nt-trading anyone have any luck with that? Will both VHF and Sum 3d be able to handle it?

Thanks in advance

 

[CADCAM]

Sorry for the novice questions. No one has any comments?
Are the two mills (Tizian cut5 smart and CORiTec 450i) identical?
Thanks again

 

[cadfan]

Tizian cut 5 smart is VHF and 450 i is imes icore with sum you can create every strategie every materialholder in the world you want but the f.... schütz sells imes 450 too. if you want real stuff imes.

 

[Sevan P]

Hi everyone,

1- Any differences between the Tizian Cut5 Smart and The CORiTec 450i? Which ones superior and why?

2- The Tizian comes with VHF software so now I'am trying to understand the difference between the VHF Cam software vs SUM 3D? What can I do with SUM 3D the I cannot do with VHF?

3- I'm interested in milling Preform abutments from nt-trading anyone have any luck with that? Will both VHF and Sum 3d be able to handle it?

Thanks in advance

hmmmmmmm... Is that supposed to be the new 5axis VHF mill? But the new VHF 5axis mill has a blank changer, the Tizian Cut 5 Smart plus. That's the one thing I hate about VHF too many version of one mill with different option. Impression 4 Impression4+ 4 manual tool changer 4+ auto tool changer. WTF!

1. Imes 450i would be more superior in my eyes, better built for longer metal milling, both run good parts but the Imes mills a built tough.

2. the VHF CAM software on the 4axis machine are very easy and to the point designed to mill, not get too technical with meshes and all sorts of crazy things. Sum3D is a much more advanced CAM that can run open for those that know what to do with all the powerful tools sum3D offers. VHF dummied down to a 1,2,3 click system.

3. No! VHF cam does not have the template for the Holder as to were sum3D does. The VHF CAM only has the template for 98mm disks, and is locked down. Unless NT or another company pays for the template to be installed in the CAM so they can sell it as a package or special deal.

Sorry for the novice questions. No one has any comments?
Are the two mills (Tizian cut5 smart and CORiTec 450i) identical?
Thanks again

The Tizian CUt 5 and the 450i are identical not the Tizian Cut 5 Smart. That is a different mill.

 

[cadfan]

You can buy the f... vhf with ore without blanck changer but service ?????????? only second level new mill software the old was bull..... so how long does it work ????

 

[ParkwayDental]

The Imes Icore 450i is a beast I love ours. I milled some Ti Abutments last night and now i have some eMax ripping away. Best machine we have ever bought.

 

[Sevan P]

You can buy the f... vhf with ore without blanck changer but service ?????????? only second level new mill software the old was bull..... so how long does it work ????

The imes 450I will out mill the VHF wet mill in the long run, it was built for cutting metal. As for service, we service our own machines now with the aid of a near dealer within driving distance.

 

[cadfan]

The VHFs comes with their own cam software which is simple to use but you cant change things ! sum 3 d is although very simple you get normal strategies for everything and you can change parts of your strategie or create your own ore create material holders and so on. The cam software is the heart of a mill i have the old vhf and i test some software after 2 years milling it was ok but i was not satisfied during the test was a situation i have to work with my vhf software because the ds cam trial was over after one day ill talked to sum to give me a trial too , why because of the f.. difference between the( professional) software like someone switched on the light.Take care at the cam software if you bye the first mill your maybe impressed about normal mill software while you have experience you only smile. Its like driving porsche with 100 , 250 ore 500 horsepower the cam software is the engine.You get differerent Situations but you have only one strategie for example full zirkon ore with facing or abutment so whats happened if you have a screw retained bridge with full zirkon and facing cemented on ti abutments maybe you have a problem.

 

[birnbaum]

Would the Tizian allow me to mill Li-Di and surgical guides? I guess It dosent let you mill nt abutments, although the disc holder is exactly the same as the Imes.
How important is the cam software in a milling machine? Is it possible to mill something with one CAM software that another wouldnt allow you. I have only worked with cercon brain and coudnt modify nesting nor milling strategies
30.000 dollar difference form one milling machine to another

 

[Peter Carollo]

We are looking to purchase a mill to mill custom abutments from the puck as well as implant bars any recommendationsrecommendations

 

[rich green]

So Biodent, it sounds like you are going to need a 5 axis, wet machine for both of the applications. The machines that are capable are spendy. 175k ish. To be able to mill from puck you are probably looking at a Haas. Haas is less expensive than a Datron by 10s of thousands. Run best by Hyperdent. you should be able to do the things you want. Good luck

 

[Radu]

Rich green is right. All the Mills you are comparing now are not made for metal milling on a daily basis. All of them are good machines but as far as I know... when it comes to metal..those are in another league. Like Haas, Dmg.. Or maybe Imes 750i. Those with more experience please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[brayks]

So Biodent, it sounds like you are going to need a 5 axis, wet machine for both of the applications. The machines that are capable are spendy. 175k ish. To be able to mill from puck you are probably looking at a Haas. Haas is less expensive than a Datron by 10s of thousands. Run best by Hyperdent. you should be able to do the things you want. Good luck

Rich green is right. All the Mills you are comparing now are not made for metal milling on a daily basis. All of them are good machines but as far as I know... when it comes to metal..those are in another league. Like Haas, Dmg.. Or maybe Imes 750i. Those with more experience please correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually our Versamill 5x is PERFECTLY suited to milling metal (titanium, CoCr, stainless steel, etc.) on a daily basis (as well as e.max and zirconia - two completely separate coolant systems) for significantly less thank $175K. The machine utilizes construction techniques/components/materials etc. found in "industrial/big machines" and is designed for dental applications.

Regarding NT-Trading blanks, our system abutment solution is designed around their products. We did however have to create our own fixture cartridge (which is milled on each individual machine) that was more accurate and able to produce more repeatable results. We also heavily modified the libraries so they are more accurate and accommodate a greater variety of abutment designs that also provides a machined area that actually gets to the interface...much more accurate and significantly less post-machining hand-work. We can also facilitate machining abutments and dental bars from blank discs.

I think it would be well worth your while to check it out...

http://www.axsysdental.com/VersaMILL_Main-7.html

This page has a short "slide show" that provides a bit of detail on our NT-Trading solution: http://www.axsysdental.com/Implants.html

 

[CoolHandLuke]

We are looking to purchase a mill to mill custom abutments from the puck as well as implant bars any recommendationsrecommendations

milling the implant interface can be difficult and very hard on small diameter burs. so milling titanium abutments from a puck would be time consuming and painful. do-able but painful.

custom abutments from blanks that already have the interface milled - much easier. much faster.

listen to @brayks

 

[[email protected]]

Brayks is correct, the VersaMILL is specifically designed to cut metals on a daily basis, strong, rugged and accurate mill, for much less than Datron, HAAS, etc. As to CoolHandLuke's comment on milling abutments from a disk, "do-able but painful" is right on the money. My opinion for what it's worth,
I am not inclined to recommend this solution due to FDA regulations, which the NT products are FDA approved.
Custom abutments from blanks that already have the interface milled - much easier. much faster (CoolHandLuke) is correct, most of the work is already done. Check out the VersaMILL 5x you won't be disappointed.

 

[Ravi]

Respected sir, I am planning to buy used Dentsply Cercon Brain, Eye without Heat (model is of Bj 2002) I am from poor country and here no body knows about Cad Cam Technology. Hence I request to share your opinion whether I should by old cadcam technology or work with proven lost wax technique for fabrication of crown & bridges.

 

[charles007]

Respected sir, I am planning to buy used Dentsply Cercon Brain, Eye without Heat (model is of Bj 2002) I am from poor country and here no body knows about Cad Cam Technology. Hence I request to share your opinion whether I should by old cadcam technology or work with proven lost wax technique for fabrication of crown & bridges.

You do not want old Outdated equipment that will be hard to impossible to get parts, service, and support for......
What other brands of equipment are you able to buy or Order in your country ? Some of the newer mills are very trouble free much less expensive to buy.
You can replace most of your cast crowns and bridges with zirconia and at a much cheaper framework cost. Here in the US a lot of our restorations are in full contour zirconia and emax. Unit cost is driving us to more full contour restoration.

 

[Ravi]

Thanks for Helping Hand here many of dentist does not know about this technology. Even they know but they don't have machinery.can you suggest any best low cost scanner and mill.Especially scanner.

 

[charles007]

Read post #13 above ... Steve is the owner of Axsys Dental and a Sponsor on DLN and maybe he can help you.. Axsys has a lower cost VersaMill wet/drymill that mills wax, zirconia, Emax, metal, and sells the Medit 2015 Blue scanners.
If that's impossible, take a look at Ivoclar Mini mill and Roland DWX 50 mill. These are lower priced mills that are bought from many DLN members that can help and share tips on this Forum. The Mini mill is pretty much trouble free and comes with simple Cam software to use. Roland mill will need to buy the Cam software separately, so you want to buy from a company that offers good support. On site setup and training is normally included in the price of Cad/cam equipment, or maybe priced separately. The most important item is being able to get good support. Buying a cheap used mill and scanner could be a total nightmare and total waste of money !
There's tons of posts on different brands of mills and scanners to read here on DLN....
Good luck and buy with the help of other techs with more experience than you...