Titanium

[TheLabGuy]

Please tell me, if i have same price for Ti coping and Zr coping why i can choose Titanium? is there any benefits from Zirconia ?

No metal substructure would be one, the ease of using Zirconia over Titanium applying porcelain is another. Having to opaque the metal versus not having to deal with those steps using Zirconia.

 

[Vazone]

No metal substructure would be one, the ease of using Zirconia over Titanium applying porcelain is another. Having to opaque the metal versus not having to deal with those steps using Zirconia.

so what is better ?

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

so what is better ?

I think this one is down to how quick you can get it out the door, I have said over and over again that Titanium is fantastic but we only offer it as a substitute for N/P and gold, I would rather do Zr crowns just because it saves me 4/5 firing cycles (no opaquing),just a modifier then it's build up time.

I don't think it is fair to try and compare the two, one is metal and one ceramic.
They are both very strong, and biocompatible. but that's where it ends, you need to advise your surgeon, which one is the best material for any given situation.

 

[PDC]

Hmmm, considering I have a dental office with six dentists right here, I asked our billing department what the reimbursement is for PFT exactly.

Our computer does not even list PORCELIAN fused to titanium, but rather #2794 TITANIUM CROWN.

Our reimbursement is $585, vs $767 for porcelain to SP. Of course that number will vary from plan to plan, and we don't take the crappy ones here. I'm still not seeing the economics of this.

Mark, since you can get the inside scoop on insurance reimbursements, are there specific codes now for PFZ's, Emax's, milled Vita glass...or are they grouped under one code? And now we have Lava Ultimate coming? Does one pay out more than another? This knowledge could help our industry when it comes to pricing. :usa2:

 

[DMC]

Titanium is classified as a Noble Alloy, as far as Insurance goes Mark.
You get the same fee. It might even be High-Noble? I'd ask my Dad, but... He worked for Delta Dental Insurance as a side gig for VA.

But, now you and the Doc get much lower alloy costs, thus lowering the overhead.

See? Cheaper crown, but same fee. win/win

I think decades ago, Dentists and Insurance companys agreed on this somehow? It was very costly to manufacture and Titanium had an exotic auora about it at the time I guess? Even though it is not a real Noble metal, it gets reimbursed as such.

 

[DMC]

Revised Classification System for Alloys for Fixed Prosthodontics - American Dental Association - ADA.org

See?

It's inbetween Noble and High-Noble.

Weird, huh.

You learned something new today.

 

[JeffT]

Hi all, Am doing my first screw retained Ti abutment on Mon. This case is a lower 6, which was placed very lingual. Had to build out the buccal in wax considerably which put it outside the millable area of the Zirc block. Dr wanted same brand abutment so another brand Zi abut was out of the question. NP is only available for copings at moment here in AUS, not abutments and a gold cast on abut with high noble alloy was to expensive for this patient. So Ti was the only option left for screw retained option. Will be using vita titanceram. I look forward to veneering this one in Ti as I think Titanium can now be a great option for the patient and another weapon in our ever expending arsenal. I would have preferred to have done it in Zi but all the doors closed for this job and the Ti door was left open.

all the best.
Jeff

 

[TheLabGuy]

Let us know how it goes, really interested in what you think of Titanceram as well

 

[Hary]

Hi every one, if we compare Ti to Zi on porcelaine bonding wich one has stronger bonding
to ceramics have any one done a test of ceramic failure on those 2 materials?

 

[mert_k]

We have been working with Titanium for a considerable time now, and during the past weeks I had chance to revise our production both regarding material and application, with the help of Pete (k2 Ceramic Studio). -- Hi Pete! still did not tell me when you would be coming to Turkey to visit us! My invitation is permanent!! --
I really appreciate his kind help and support in this matter. We also have many academician contacts from the university, including my wife (she is an Ass. Prof. in Prosthetics Dept) and what I have learned from them is ceramic bonding to Ti is well comparably superior to that of zirconia, so I am confident that we are on the "right way".
Actually we have been serving several dental labs both domestic and overseas regarding Ti frameworks, as well as zirconia and CoCr now.
All my Best, Mert

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

We have been working with Titanium for a considerable time now. We also have many academician contacts from the university, including my wife (she is an Ass. Prof. in Prosthetics Dept) and what I have learned from them is ceramic bonding to Ti is well comparably superior to that of zirconia,
All my Best, Mert

Thanks Mert I cant wait to come and see you guys. Really interested in the info from your wife's university prosthetic department, is that based on pure Ti grade 2? Have they published a paper on it yet or is it part of someones doctorate. Many thanks Pete

 

[JeffT]

Hi all, sorry for late reply. I completed 3 Ti screw retained abutments, 1 nobel and 2 straumann. The Vita kit worked as per a normal PFM, only drama was ensuring the initial bonder layer was applied perfectly as per the instructions. Took me a couple of goes to achieve this but once it was right it was a normal build up. Not sure if they turned out to be any cheaper than a Zi abut would be for a normal screw retained implant considering veneering takes much longer, but for a cheap gold altern I think Ti would be perfect if they show to be stable in the mouth long term.

I would like to try the emax to Ti abutments, Is there any info on the forum for this technique guys.

cheers fo now. jeff

 

[Labwa]

Nice Jeff!
FYI i can do CoCr abutments now...

 

[Mark Jackson]

Nice Jeff!
FYI i can do CoCr abutments now...

Why would you do that???