Shining 3D AutoScan-DS200 Dental Scanner

elpiojoxp

elpiojoxp

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Hello everybody, I was looking to this scanner from the big chinese Company Shining 3D, but can anybody tell me some feedback of this scanner? It looks pretty good from the paper spects, but how it perform in the real work world?
I will really apreciate any useful feedback. Thank you and best regards
 
2thm8kr

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My .02$,
China is not renowned for quality, only copying other good ideas.
Caveat emptor.
 
elpiojoxp

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maybe thats true, but if it performs well, where is the problem? many companies from different industries copy ideas and technologies each other all the time, you can see it in cell phones, electrodomestics, cars, etc etc.
If you can have the same quality for the half of the price it won't be a good deal for you?
 
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First and foremost you must looks at the quality of the product before anything. Getting into cad cam technology is a long term business. People sit with scanner and millers for over ten year plus. I highly doubt a Chinese miller or scanner will provide you with that amount of time. While Chinese equipment maybe cost effective they are also quality ineffective. China is the counterfeiting capital of the world. Upon looking at their site , they have the Asiga 3d printers. For a company claiming to stand out in china I highly doubt you would be advertising products from Netherlands. It's like getting married to Mary and having a picture of Linda in the wallet. Doesn't quite make sense. With Chinese products it's hit and miss. On the plus side , if you think it can achieve the level of accuracy other millers can and over a certain period of time it will generate you a profit that be sufficient enough to meet your needs , thn why not? But to think of this product as long term investment would be a grave mistake on your part.
 
eyeloveteeth

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looks like the same exact scanner everyone else is selling. DOF
 
elpiojoxp

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Iam agree with many things you said, but, many of the things you have in your house or work are made in china and they work fine. Most of the sintering furnaces you have in USA are fully made in china and I never heard someone complaining about it... The secret of the dental scanners are more in the software, not in the hardware, we can be talking about this for many days, and that its not the point.... The point is, anybody have the oportunity to test this scanner? how good/bad it is? It can reach the level of quality needed in dentistry or not? Anybody went to Cologne IDS? Shining 3D was there.

This scanner is far different than DOF scanner guys, take a more deep look before start "lol" I think all the community will appreciate that.
 
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eyeloveteeth

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don't get butt hurt by our commentary. it's DLN

are you trying to see these things? did you make a bad investment and buy a bunch already?
 
elpiojoxp

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don't get butt hurt by our commentary. it's DLN

are you trying to see these things? did you make a bad investment and buy a bunch already?
I dont get hurt, and I dont made a bad investment already, im just looking for an objetive review.
 
CoolHandLuke

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The secret of the dental scanners are more in the software, not in the hardware, we can be talking about this for many days, and that its not the point....

that is not always the case. and that statement is far from true.

however, it does not always mean that every chinese product is bad - sometimes real engineering goes into their products and sometimes some great things are made by the lowest bidder.

if we examine only the hardware we must remember that most current generation scanners are Fingerprint readers. with that in mind, yes Lenovo and toshiba were at the forefront of this technology as far back as the mid 1990's, but it never really got better did it ? the quality and accuracy were not much improved as time progressed. eventually fingerprint scanning became dull, in light of newer "identification" devices. anyway the point is a lot of companies used the same base product to create devices. its happening now in dental.

what i see when i look at this scanner is, to be blunt, garbage.

it is an item i expect to throw away after 12 - 16 months, and buy all over again.

from a technical standpoint that really doesnt bode well for this item's longevity. it means they want to sell many units - and they might - but not riding on the back of a name brand signifying quality. who else do we know in this quality bracket? DVD's? use it throw it away buy a new one... Kleenex? plastic forks? underwear?

if you have to buy it again soon don't count on this thing saving you money in any stretch of the imagination. paying a high price for a better unit may be hard to do, but it at least saves you re-buying in 5 years time; you have to know that at some point your unit will be obsolete and you will need to re-purchase into newer faster better equipment. this is how every industry revolves. we don't use windows 2000 anymore because newer better versions came out. we don't use iPhone3 anymore because iPhone4 came out. we don't use alumina anymore because better zirconia was invented.

what possible software feature could make re-buying this junk worth while? it offers nothing new or innovative as far as i can tell; besides which even if it produces STL data theres two problems with that: 1. we do not know its final data density (because each software produces different results) and 2. stl format (as a universal 3d file format) will soon be changing anyway.

this scanner may as well be made of platinum-plated unicorn horns. it offers nothing new, nor does it create an efficiency, and if the software of most other chinese products are any indication then its English interface is about as useful as attempting to stop a monsoon of rain using only an margarita umbrella.

with a scanner like planscan or iTero you are dropping more money up front sure, but when new software comes out or they update the hardware there are legit trade-up options. this is part of what makes German auto manufacturers so popular; the trade in value. drive a honda off the lot and its instantly worth nothing.

this is what makes Tesla such an appealing option now too; free updates, fantastic warranty, and round the clock service. you know who used to do that? Rolls Royce. never a mark against that maker either. apart from the obvious.

but enough of cars. i hope you understand my point. good evening.
 
zero_zero

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STL is here to stay CHL...
 
NicelyMKV

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I've used the shine 3D scanner before. It wasn't the newest one. Scanned great and even saves as .dcm if you want. Scanned and designed a few singles and a three unit bridge. Milled, sintered and everything fit dead on. You can get those things with exocad for 16-17k total. Pretty crazy.
 
elpiojoxp

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what i see when i look at this scanner is, to be blunt, garbage.
it is an item i expect to throw away after 12 - 16 months, and buy all over again.

I understand your point, but what is your base to say that is garbage and in 12-16 months you must throw it away and buy a new one?
Have you tried it personally?
I am not for or against anyone or anything, I just want to see first-hand experience that have worked and those who have used this scanner.

I've used the shine 3D scanner before. It wasn't the newest one. Scanned great and even saves as .dcm if you want. Scanned and designed a few singles and a three unit bridge. Milled, sintered and everything fit dead on. You can get those things with exocad for 16-17k total. Pretty crazy.
What exactly scanner do you used? are you still using it? Did you compare the mesh of that scanner with a Medit or a Steinbichler scanner? Thank you very much for your help.


STL is here to stay CHL...
Im agree with you.
 
CoolHandLuke

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CoolHandLuke

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I understand your point, but what is your base to say that is garbage and in 12-16 months you must throw it away and buy a new one?
Have you tried it personally?
I am not for or against anyone or anything, I just want to see first-hand experience that have worked and those who have used this scanner.
i have not tried it, no, but i expect it to be made of parts that will wear out quickly (such as its axes motors) or overheat, or start a fire with faulty wiring, or something else.

you can't expect the cheapest item of a group to be its most enduring. you have to expect the cheapest one to fail first. you may be pleasantly surprised if it doesnt, but that should be the bar of your expectations.
 
elpiojoxp

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i have not tried it, no, but i expect it to be made of parts that will wear out quickly (such as its axes motors) or overheat, or start a fire with faulty wiring, or something else.

you can't expect the cheapest item of a group to be its most enduring. you have to expect the cheapest one to fail first. you may be pleasantly surprised if it doesnt, but that should be the bar of your expectations.

Thank you for the info about 3MF and STL.
So, your statements were conclusive, but they are only based on personal assumptions, we are free to express ourselves in this forum, but as I said initially, I'm in search of facts and not on unfounded assumptions. Cheaper does not mean lower quality. Returning to the car example, the safer one is the Volvo, but there are much more expensive cars are not as safe. The point here is to be objective, and put aside all prejudices. The Chinese have incredibly cheap handlabor, which does not happen in many other countries, many of the things that you use every day are made in China and work perfectly, it is not wise or fair to describe all Chinese products as low quality, without have met, tested and worked with them.
As long as I know almost everybody here in this forum wants open .STL rigs.
 
CoolHandLuke

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household items to be used everyday are one thing, but all of the manufacturing in the entire history of civilisation has prized a few key components: 1. longevity. 2. quality. 3. simplicity. 4. repeatability.

now, those 4 intrinsic items are part of the Process (not the Product).

so your process should have Longevity. you should be able to make your products for a long time before needing service or making repairs or altering the process. this is the reason dentists still take impressions - their process has not changed. does the Shining DS2000 add longevity to your process?

the process should have quality. you hire the right people for the task. if people don't know what they are doing your process is interrupted with instruction, remakes, and bad operators can cause frequent shutdowns and services. does the ds200 add quality to your process? as i have seen the website it offers nothing new or innovative to the scan or design phase of digital manufacturing so to me, no it doesnt.

the process should be simple. to this end we have very much looked to machines to aid us simplify the manufacturing process. any scanner fits this bill really, but again how is its longevity in light of this? there are others that would add more, i can guarantee it.

repeatability - where i mention above that you will need to rebuy this scanner in light of breakdowns or bugs or better options in 12 months time. some have used the D700 scanner from 3shape for over 6 years without fail. that is an example of some fantastic manufacturing repeatablity.

none of the items we buy for our homes have those 4 values in mind.

you buy a sofa - knowing it will get old and out of fashion in a year. spend the least you need to spend.

you buy clothing - same concept.

carpets, drapes, wall paint... etc. all disposable and interchangeable.

none of the items we buy for ourselves or home are bought to endure and pass on to children.

comparing this to consumer electronics like a TV or stereo? apples and oranges comparison i think. 110$ blue ray player breaks you toss it and buy a new one. 10 000$ model scanner? not exactly. try and fix it. not like you can go to best buy and pick one up on your credit card. every moment it is broken it costs your business some money. you won't lose your house if your blue ray player is broken.
 
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Eloijoxpi , you sound like you have come to defend Chinese products and not really pay attention to people's opinions. I am coming from a different perspective. I think china have spoiled the narrative in a business sense for dentists and technicians alike with their strong desire to produce crowns and bridges that are cheap and at the same time quality ineffective. If the patient truly knew where he/she dental lab work was coming from , I think they would strongly condemn having any lab work for their oral cavity come from china. We are talking about a medical profession here and as a dentist myself , your first priority is to see that your patient gets the best tx possible. It's the the most ethical way to go about things. Comparing dental equipment to house furniture is an insult to the dental profession.
 
elpiojoxp

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I agree with your reasoning in general, but what I'm trying to figure out how is actually this scanner, it has less than 15microns precision, which is very good, it's automatic, with great space for models, very fast, simple to use, has texture, color, it works with open system, what lacks? Its characteristics and technology are like those of any premium scanner, I want to know if this precisely characteristics can be maintained over time or not, and for that we appeal to the experience of someone who has tried it, known it and used it.
You take for granted that the scanner is disposable, but you can not tell that if you have not worked with it.
 
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