Sagemax vs Aidite

[MrSae]

Hello, everyone!

We are a small milling and metal printing center, and I've opened this topic to gather information about your experiences with Sagexmax vs Aidite zirconia blanks. When we first ventured into the milling business, we sent samples to our customers from Noritake KATANA and Sagemax blanks, and almost all of them preferred Sagemax zirconia. Recently, an Aidite dealer, (who was previously associated with ZirkonZahn),has been urging us to consider their brand. He mentioned that the largest milling centers have shifted to Aidite and staying with Sagemax would be a mistake. Although I requested a sample blank from Aidite, we haven't received it yet. Nevertheless, I'm curious about your opinions on whether it's worth considering a switch from Sagemax to Aidite.

Thank you very much!

 

[tehnik]

I can speak about 3D pro and their new Airzir. 3D pro is beautiful material, but it is lighter than the color it should be. So we mill one shade darker color to get the one we need. The enamel part of the material is very big and very light so if you have a large restoration that fills the whole blank, the crown is once again lighter that it should be. The material is weaker than katana YML but the transitions between layers are not visible. The new Airzir is similar material, but it is not as light so it looks like we can mill the color we need. The enamel part is not as light as 3D pro, but some technicians are saying it has gray hue. Price wise the airzir is cheaper. I have not used Sagemax so I cant compare that. If Katana YML would not have the visible line between layers, would have bleach colors (OM1 etc) and would have 25mm puck, I would not use Aidite.

 

[Affinity]

Sagemax of course! Its made in USA not a commie hell hole.

 

[mmbh]

We tried 3d pro as well. We had shade issues as well. Looked great in your hand but was bright in the mouth. Also, the discs seem more brittle and pieces chip off frequently. FYI. A big percentage of the large American brands get their powders all from the same place, either just rebrand it or process it to their desired specs, so as far as quality of the material is basically the same, just maybe with their own little twist.

 

[tuyere]

We tried 3d pro as well. We had shade issues as well. Looked great in your hand but was bright in the mouth. Also, the discs seem more brittle and pieces chip off frequently. FYI. A big percentage of the large American brands get their powders all from the same place, either just rebrand it or process it to their desired specs, so as far as quality of the material is basically the same, just maybe with their own little twist.

Yeah, zirconia pressing is a sufficiently-hot business right now that you can find companies whose entire business model is setting you up with a disc-pressing operation with your own branding. Or just slapping your branding on generic discs! A lot of it is just different badging on the same stuff pressed with the same machinery, especially newer marques that didn't have to develop their own processes and sourcing like you did in the early days.

 

[desertfox384]

How the powders are processed and put together makes up to 50% of the materials actual strength according to Ed mclaren. So maybe the powders are sourced the similarly, how it’s put together matters. Personally, I’d stay away from Chinese

 

[mmbh]

Yes you kind of are making my point. Of course the processing is important, but that doesn't have much to do with the raw materials. A large part of the Strength comes from the blend of powders to get the desired translucent/Strength balance and the method used to process the disc. The 3d pro discs we tried seemed more brittle in the disc state than others with similar strength and translucency. Most likely something in the processing, not sure but we had too many shade issues to deal with. Just keep in mind that about 90% of the worlds zirconia is processed in china and there are ranges of purity. So for some of those big names, they get their powders from the same place. A lot of it is just marketing and perception.

 

[tuyere]

Yeah, unless you've visited the factory or are talking about a handful of specific brands, I would assume your American/Euro etc discs are just being imported from China and packaged/having bands pressed on to meet the "made in USA/etc" requirements. Staying away from Chinese goods is functionally impossible because of how modern manufacturing works, and beyond that isn't really an effective way of guaranteeing much of anything any more, beyond you being the target market for specific types of branding and product representation.

My experience is often the inverse- Chinese companies know they have to fight the stigma of operating from china, so they make an effort to stand out by offering effective customer service and guaranteeing their products/working to make you happy beyond what's contractually-obligated. I've had much better experiences working with Chinese printer resin manufacturers than most domestic ones, and the domestic ones still are offshoring the actual manufacturing and just rebottling it domestically.

 

[mmbh]

Regardless where the raw materials come from, the competition has created some great zirconia products on the market that are great quality products to choose from. We've been using zirconia now for about 20 years and its come a long long way. The current stuff is fantastic compared with having to do pfms. ( which have almost become a four letter word in our office, lol).

 

[mmbh]

I've never tried Sagemax but I've heard good things and I'm sure they have a great product and I may try some in the future. I do know they get powder from china but it doesn't matter to me, so does just about everyone else.

 

[AaronW12321]

Was very unimpressed with aidite. The shades were light all around, the gradient looks more natural than a lot of other zircs with strong transition lines like katana yml though. The Airzir/honorzir were very mono shade and had almost no translucency/shade gradient. Like mmbh and tuyere said almost all of the USA made pucks are just pressed in the US with chinese powder. All the best raw powder comes from china. We're testing a chinese brand now called Zirdent that looks way better than aidite and is better priced. We're trying to move away from emax zircad prime and other ivoclar products.

 

[desertfox384]

Yes you kind of are making my point. Of course the processing is important, but that doesn't have much to do with the raw materials. A large part of the Strength comes from the blend of powders to get the desired translucent/Strength balance and the method used to process the disc. The 3d pro discs we tried seemed more brittle in the disc state than others with similar strength and translucency. Most likely something in the processing, not sure but we had too many shade issues to deal with. Just keep in mind that about 90% of the worlds zirconia is processed in china and there are ranges of purity. So for some of those big names, they get their powders from the same place. A lot of it is just marketing and perception.

No doubt there’s a lot of marketing and rebranding. Mclarens point was that the specific process of creating the disc is vitally important to the strength of the material, and many companies are not up to par, regardless of where the base materials are sourced. He also added that the mpa on some if not most are very “exaggerated”.

 

[Affinity]

I've never tried Sagemax but I've heard good things and I'm sure they have a great product and I may try some in the future. I do know they get powder from china but it doesn't matter to me, so does just about everyone else.

How do you know they get the powder from china?

A quick search shows that france was the largest exporter, maybe a different form of raw zirconium, with 31%, US was 2nd at 30% and china exports 5% of the worlds zirc.

https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/zirconium

 

[mmbh]

Big portion of zirconium is mined in Australia with China doing most of the processing. I have some background in commodities and exporting. I can see who gets what shipments from where, the and how many containers etc. I can see where their powder is coming from.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Big portion of zirconium is mined in Australia with China doing most of the processing. I have some background in commodities and exporting. I can see who gets what shipments from where, the and how many containers etc. I can see where their powder is coming from.

How do you know they get the powder from china?

A quick search shows that france was the largest exporter, maybe a different form of raw zirconium, with 31%, US was 2nd at 30% and china exports 5% of the worlds zirc.

https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/zirconium

world's largest zirconium mine is in Australia, who technically doesn't export at all, as the mine is owned by chinese corporations. https://www.amcconsultants.com/expe...s-jacinth-ambrosia-largest-zircon-development

this is how you skirt export regulations, and avoid paying fees. just buy the country you are pillaging to begin with.

 

[Affinity]

I missed the chance to tour the sagemax facility with CHL

 

[CoolHandLuke]

it was a fun tour. it was the weekend trump was sworn in.

our tour might have had a bigger turnout than his though.

met Saro from Alien there, and after the roundtable it was announced that Sagemax was sold to Ivoclar, so yeah you missed a bit.

 

[desertfox384]

Buy the country you are pillaging you say ? Seems like that’s a habit with China lately