Remax for sale.

[Gru]

Banned from what?
Banned from DLN? If people get banned for stating opinions, most of us wouldn't be here.

It's very informative to see the separation in what some would argue makes ethical, high quality labs and those who will do anything to get by. Whether or not re-using ingots in some manner is ethical appears to be opinion at this stage. I personally would like to see Ivo refuse to sell product to anyone reselling used ingots. Who knows if they are even e.max? Maybe misuse of trade name, or something of that sort. I wouldn't be surprised if they could even get e bay to refuse to list them.

 

[Tom Moore]

Not band but surely we need a marking system like a tag they will be forced to wear like a button in a red circle with a line through it. Maybe a tat showing there numbered place among these evil doers. Then we need some reeducation camps for them and........ on wait a minute, that's just may be my German heritage coming out, never mind.

Button button who's got the button could work.

 

[Ron.Ferland]

Interesting article...says in the conclusion that you can do it. However, I've never done it on any of my e.max but it does pose a bigger question for me. I wonder if Ivoclar never tested this, or they just want to increase the profit margin by saying not to do it? Whats the true motivation?

They are a business-for-profit. Why would they test it under these conditions??

 

[Ron.Ferland]

This article echos an old study done on re-pressing L.D. in S.Korea (if I recall it was posted in the last discussion thread on the topic) in the pre-e.max days.

I can see the argument for "pusher" ingots in an emergency, perhaps.

Lemme see: potential debris in re-pressed units, a certain change in color integrity, time & equipment to grind used ingots, potential of devaluing an excellent product... enough said?

Yep, Ivoclar wants huge profits. Can you blame them? Their products make me profitable.

Agreed.

 

[Tad Philip]

Banned from what?
Banned from DLN? If people get banned for stating opinions, most of us wouldn't be here.

It's very informative to see the separation in what some would argue makes ethical, high quality labs and those who will do anything to get by. Whether or not re-using ingots in some manner is ethical appears to be opinion at this stage. I personally would like to see Ivo refuse to sell product to anyone reselling used ingots. Who knows if they are even e.max? Maybe misuse of trade name, or something of that sort. I wouldn't be surprised if they could even get e bay to refuse to list them.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Dennis, if you're that CHEAP than go head and use those USED ingots. Charge more, use new ingots and give the customer a QUALITY restoration!!! Ask Mark Jackson about used ingots, reaction layers and how LD loosed it strength if its repressed. WTH are Dental techs thinking doing this!!! Trying to save pennies and not thinking about dollars. Any one repressing Emax ingots should be BANNED from dentistry!

I just don't get it, why used old e.max ingots? I have never used them and never will, if your profit margin is making you do this then here is a novel idea...raise your damn prices!!! We have a philosophy in our lab that I drill into my employees...make every case as its your Moms case!!! If you wouldn't send it out the door for your Mom it doesn't go out the door...period, end of sentence. At this point I'd like to remind each and every one of you that are using old e.max ingots, you're a professional, you're a elite group of technologically advance group of folks that are very creative and sophisticated. You know not everyone can do what we do, matter of fact a very small fraction. So start respecting what you do and how you do it, you owe your profession that much, hell you owe yourself that much.

 

[Gru]

Re-read what I posted,Tad. I didn't advise re-using the ingots, so don't read what isn't there.
As to being cheap, I pay my bills, and save money only where it's ethical.
I don't send a case I wouldn't put in my own mouth- ever.
As to M.J. his opinions are so far just that, that's fine but not an industry ruling. Please link us to his scientific studies. To my knowledge he has only stated things we all know already.
And as to opinions, I weight the opinions of TheLabGuy, Al, dmonwaxa, Charles007, rkm, and John Wilson and a few others here more seriously than many others who are becoming the new industry icons because of their continued effort to help.

 

[rkm rdt]

I think reusing ingots would be great for practice and sample cases. I've never tried using them for pushing a new ingot.

I prefer to use emax cad when I can anyway.

This controversy could be ended immediately if Ivoclar were to publish a paper on it.

 

[Tad Philip]

Sorry, Gru(Dennis) I thought you were FOR the use of re-used Emax ingots! It was late last, I should have been in bed
(No I was drinking, lol) Just a long day. I was shocked went I thought you were doing this!!! It didn't sound like you, I know you demand quality and perfection on all your cases! Please accept my apology. Have good weekend! Tad

 

[Gru]

I'm a stickler for separating opinion from documented "fact" (I only use quotes because studies can contradict each other). I'm as full of opinion as anyone here, but that doesn't make it fact.
At Ivoclar HQ I asked for such a study to be published. So far I haven't seen one.
Only a fool would buy used ingots and assume they were the real thing- even if it were o.k. to reuse them. My opinion.

At this stage I make the bulk of my living off the e.max brand. I sincerely do NOT want it damaged or tarnished. I believe the rest of DLN feels the same way.

Done for the weekend. Have a great one, all.

 

[Tom Moore]

All materials going in the mouth must be FDA 510K registered. Emax is and that would make the button 510K registered.

What’s missing in most all labs is documented Good Manufacturing Practice (GMP) and it is federal law for all dental labs registered with the FDA or not.

This just means you document in written form how you do what you do. If you use buttons it’s documented and you get to stand behind that decision. This would not be anywhere near the thread it is if labs did what they are by law supposed to do in the first place.

If you don't like the material manufactures recommendations use someone else

I don’t think many would document they are using a 510K material against the manufactures recommendation.

The dentist who by law is our end customer should be able to back track failures through us all the way to the 510K material manufactures. That’s why the laws are there as adjuncts to use of 510K materials.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Such drama and hostility.

Folks, if you'd like to be more successful than the other guy, stop minding others businesses and start minding your own.

I'm on DLN less and less these days, and seeing endless and pointless drivel and insults like this leaves a bad taste. Positive growth comes from positivity, hard work, and dedication. Keep doing the other end of things and.....well, you know
Guess I might try again next year. Happy 2015 friends! Stay positive

 

[dmonwaxa]

Happy 2015 to you SSB, you've been missed.

 

[rkm rdt]

There's no harmony without you side boob