Lets talk Ivoclar's new prices for zirconia discs...

[Car 54]

I'm definitely making a switch then. Anyone tried Upcera?

Not me...but they're looking for you

https://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/experienced-sales-managers-wanted-for-upcera.32365/

 

[sirmorty]

Aren't there only 2 manufactures of the zirconia? Upcera and Duceram
All your seeing is branding?

 

[TheLabGuy]

Aren't there only 2 manufactures of the zirconia? Upcera and Duceram
All your seeing is branding?

Argen makes it own...they have quite the process there. They use these big tumblers to mix the powders for the pre-shaded discs, then press them, all under strict measured protocols. Also, I'm pretty sure Ivoclar does some type of manufacturing as well because look at Prime, not much out there that can touch that translucency.

 

[Toothman19]

Not me...but they're looking for you

https://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/experienced-sales-managers-wanted-for-upcera.32365/

Ive had two reps come in here the last two weeks

 

[sirmorty]

Yeah, I believe some companies press their own. Sagemax, Argen, probably others.
and maybe they add something during that process. But the powder is probably from the same supplier.

But most of them are just rebranded with their logo printed on it.

 

[mmbh]

From what I've heard, the two main powder suppliers are Tosoh and the parent company of Upcera(can't remember the name). A majority of the companies producing their own discs use powders from one of these two, then mix for their own formula. I'm pretty sure everyone here already knew this though.

 

[Sda36]

Argen makes it own...they have quite the process there. They use these big tumblers to mix the powders for the pre-shaded discs, then press them, all under strict measured protocols. Also, I'm pretty sure Ivoclar does some type of manufacturing as well because look at Prime, not much out there that can touch that translucency.

The main issue I have is with "Too much Air" ( Peter Pizzi) Too much light transmission that we pretty much all found out about when Emax HT was 1st introduced. We need opacity of certain levels in specific areas especially where you have a really narrow or short prep. compared to the whole of the restoration. Hi Trans can work against you in a lot of situations. It's always baffled me for cosmetic anterior case, can you please "try" to make level proportional prep lengths? Otherwise we need to jump through a lot of hoops to get there successfully. Case in point, Dr. asks for two centrals, one an implant crown and the other a no prep veneer. WHAT??? I explained that's pretty much The Most Difficult Task in dentistry. Explained that for this to work out, for this Dr was I would make the implant crown and mirror shapes. Next we're closing a 1mm diastema and young Pt getting married soon! I'm making a contact lense veneer on Both so that they can control color on both chairside with their luting resins. Pt has white mottling and banding with a high chroma intrinsic stained area in the middle 1/3.

This is why I chose this approach, no way this would be delivered otherwise. What a crazy treatment plan, going to be 1 implant crown, screw retained and 2 veneers. I'll try and send some pics at the end. Just another week in my life

 

[mmbh]

Argen makes it own...they have quite the process there. They use these big tumblers to mix the powders for the pre-shaded discs, then press them, all under strict measured protocols. Also, I'm pretty sure Ivoclar does some type of manufacturing as well because look at Prime, not much out there that can touch that translucency.

We primarily use Argen's Zirconia. I have some ivoclar prime, It does have incredible translucent incisal. We use it sometimes over implants but except for the incisal it can look kind of bright.

 

[grantoz]

try Zirkonzahn prettau 2 and 3 dispersive both have graduated trans and colour 2 is stronger in the incisal 1100mpa top to bottom but not as trans as 3 .3 is 670mpa incisal 1200mpa in the marginal middle 3rd. all of them are made by zirkonzahn in house. they get great results.

 

[Contraluz]

try Zirkonzahn prettau 2 and 3 dispersive both have graduated trans and colour 2 is stronger in the incisal 1100mpa top to bottom but not as trans as 3 .3 is 670mpa incisal 1200mpa in the marginal middle 3rd. all of them are made by zirkonzahn in house. they get great results.

While I like ZirkonZahn, their prices are even crazier. The new prices for the Ivoclar discs look like pocket change, compared to ZZ's

 

[mmbh]

While I like ZirkonZahn, their prices are even crazier. The new prices for the Ivoclar discs look like pocket change, compared to ZZ's

What are ZZ's disc prices?

 

[Contraluz]

What are ZZ's disc prices?

I am not up to the latest, but I thought it is in the $400 range for a regular sized and over $800 for a 20mm and above. Again, that is on top off my head and from about 4-5 years ago. Memory ain't what it used to be...

 

[Car 54]

I am not up to the latest, but I thought it is in the $400 range for a regular sized and over $800 for a 20mm and above. Again, that is on top off my head and from about 4-5 years ago. Memory ain't what it used to be...

That sounds a little to high?
The thing that always held me back from trying it was the higher sintering temp, more than what I wanted to routinely sinter at with my S1.

 

[Contraluz]

That sounds a little to high?
The thing that always held me back from trying it was the higher sintering temp, more than what I wanted to routinely sinter at with my S1.

I am pretty sure your S1 should be fine, if you have the 1600 version. But, ZZ has its own puck version, not compatible with your mill. Unless they do 98 discs now, too.

That sounds a little to high?

It sure does...

 

[Car 54]

I am pretty sure your S1 should be fine, if you have the 1600 version. But, ZZ has its own puck version, not compatible with your mill. Unless they do 98 discs now, too.

It sure does...

Yes, I have the 1600 and that was one of the questions I asked before I bought it, in regards to routinely firing at 1600. They said it shouldn't be a problem, as there was headroom past the 1600. But I still didn't want to push it constantly to 1600. Besides, there are so many good zirconias out there that fire from 1450 to 1550...why push it?

 

[CatamountRob]

That sounds a little to high?

You have to expect that on 4/20.

 

[grantoz]

prices are no where near contraluz quotes i would say about half of what he is quoting depends on which country he is in . they also do 98mm blocks and their new m2 can take various sized discs as well anything from 95mm to 125mm its very clever .the interesting thing is you can get slightly more cases out of 95mm disc than you can out of 98mm disc.

 

[Chiolo C]

From what I've heard, the two main powder suppliers are Tosoh and the parent company of Upcera(can't remember the name). A majority of the companies producing their own discs use powders from one of these two, then mix for their own formula. I'm pretty sure everyone here already knew this though.

Quick true, 99% Zr powder come from Tosoh or Upcera , and the blocking /layering tech of Zr disc producers are converging, almost every brand has it's own mutilayer products (but i still prefer HT or ST disc) i guess the every discs only costs only $10~20 material fee. many other fee like spending on advertising or expo added in final price. switching to other brands is easy and happened frequently for me
Loyal to lover is goodness， loyal to vendor is foolish

 

[Contraluz]

prices are no where near contraluz quotes i would say about half of what he is quoting depends on which country he is in

I don't want to , but this is from the thread about the ZirkonZahn M1:

In 2021, paying $400+ for a puck of zirconia is a like a tax on stupidity.

So, maybe in your neck of the woods the prices for ZZ discs are more competitive, but not around here.
I realize the new ZZ mill takes 98 discs, too, and there are a bunch of companies offering 95 discs, too (not so much 4-5 years ago).

 

[cadguru11]

What are ZZ's disc prices?

25mm pucks are over $500 after tax. Even a 12 mm is over $300. Makes me mad thinking about it.