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    I hate flippers!

    Discussion in 'Removable' started by gatorteeth87, Jan 23, 2012.

    1. gatorteeth87

      gatorteeth87 Member Full Member

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      Just waxed and invested two more "long term" acrylic partials for patients that "can't afford more invasive treatment." These things take forever, doctors don't want to pay anything for them, want them back yesterday and they are a pain to finish!!

      Is there a better way? Who can make the fastest flipper in town?
       
    2. MasterCeramist

      MasterCeramist Active Member Full Member

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      Plaster or putty matrix, cold cure acrylic and a pressure pot start to finish in an hour or less.
       
    3. Smilestyler
      Spaced

      Smilestyler Denturist Full Member

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      One of my colleagues has renamed them "6 month partials" to allow patients to understand what they are getting. I use light cure when I want one fast, and they come out nice. I used both clear eclipse resin, and triad pink reline sheets in the past. My normal mo is heat cure/flask and a rugae but I charge more and still call the "6 month partial"
       
    4. TECHARTISAN

      TECHARTISAN Member Full Member

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      I personally dont find flippers time consuming....save the occasional "picket fence" case. I am curious what it is that you feel makes them take forever for you? Perhaps the solution is not in figuring out what we do but rather what you are doing.

      for the record, I do mine in hydrocolloid with pour acrylic.
       
    5. AJEL
      Artistic

      AJEL Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I have 3 in the inkovac in hydrocoloid right now, I run enough flippers & brux appliances I hydrocoloid duplicate the model to save time finishing (blockout) If there is a single tooth to keep it from moving I either plaster or silicone matrix it.
      ai1123.photobucket.com_albums_l546_Ajels_Basics_20baseplate_th_IMG_2027.jpg
      ai1123.photobucket.com_albums_l546_Ajels_Basics_20baseplate_th_fc8.jpg
      ai1123.photobucket.com_albums_l546_Ajels_Basics_20baseplate_th_fc12.jpg

      To do a sloppy super rapid U can do a thumbprint flipper, paint the model with separator, Set a tooth silicone matrix, mix some PMMA make a ball put it in the palate push your gloved thumb in with a dab of monomier on and mush around put in pressure pot. I've seen folks do this in 10-15 min, it might last a few months, longer than an essex.[

      ai1123.photobucket.com_albums_l546_Ajels_Basics_20baseplate_th_IMG_2027.jpg ai1123.photobucket.com_albums_l546_Ajels_Basics_20baseplate_th_fc8.jpg ai1123.photobucket.com_albums_l546_Ajels_Basics_20baseplate_th_fc12.jpg
       
      Last edited: Jan 24, 2012
    6. DentureDude
      Relaxed

      DentureDude trained monkey Full Member

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      i see the gamut.
      some are real fast. one tooth, no clasp.. quick cure , done in a matter of minutes.

      but when they get big and complicated,.. it does take some time to do it right.

      its great when your doc tells you he can throw them in from across the room.

      i prep and dupe for almost every flipper.

      prep means everything. articulate if needed. remove the teeth if imm. post dam,.. then dupe. i use alginate.

      then bend the wires, set the teeth and wax it up as you would want the finished product. especially the palette/lingual thickness. my philosophy is real strength comes from flexibility so keep every thing as even as you can. then process. i use the pour method with some good acrylic.

      if this is done correctly they come out so pretty. super clean and there is very little finish time.

      its hard for me to imagine a flipper being sent out without a complete seat down on a duplicate model. and.. spot in in on the articulator. thats where all the "saving the doc chair time" comes in. if you dont do this you will eventually loose your work to someone who does.

      i do the very best job i can on everything. a flipper is no different. and i charge for it. they do moan and groan about the price at first but the smart ones stay with me because they love the "no frustration factor" mine cost them less in the long run. with pretty much zero chair time or return visits.
       
      Last edited: Jan 24, 2012
    7. treehouse

      treehouse Member Full Member

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      I think my question has been answered: pour. I have been waxing, flasking, packing and heat-curing mine. Then there is remounting, adjusting, pulling hair and polishing! Removables are new to me, I've only been doing them for about a year. There are plenty of programs and books about denture making, but there is a big void in education for the other removable services IMO.

      I want these to drop right in for the docs, but at the same time not have to charge them a ton of money for something that is temporary. Thanks for all the replies, especially AJEL for the pics. Big help!
       
    8. treehouse

      treehouse Member Full Member

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      Sorry, this is confusing. Apparently my co-worker's computer was logged in under her S/N already. I am gatorteeth87, please excuse the other username.

       
    9. AJEL
      Artistic

      AJEL Well-Known Member Full Member

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      gatorteeth87
      Just for the heck of it I use the same flask for model duplication (baseplate, brux,flexible), brux processing, some snore, processed baseplate, Flippers & Hawleys. I have 6 med sized & 3 big uns. If UR just starting out & want to save, get one reg & one big un, from Fricke Dental. Search my threads for tricks on using them.
       
    10. Flippercentral

      Flippercentral Well-Known Member Full Member

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      What did I ever do to you? :)
       
      Last edited: Jan 24, 2012
    11. gatorteeth87

      gatorteeth87 Member Full Member

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      Thanks for the tips man, you are right, I am just starting out and I don't have any experience with pouring. Definitely going to look into that. I am tired of acrylic partials sucking all of the joy out of the world! If this doesn't work, anyone is welcome to visit me in my new padded room :p
       
    12. gatorteeth87

      gatorteeth87 Member Full Member

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      Haha sorry Flippercentral, it's nothing personal :eek:
       
    13. Brian Turensky

      Brian Turensky New Member

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      I agree with the putty matrix/cold cure method. I place a Preat strengthning wire in the ridgelap area of the tooth if I have enough clearance for a little added strength. I also like to blockout the model with plaster proir to making my matrix to make sure the matrix does not flex over undercuts while placing it back on the model, the matrix may have teeth pop out if it has some flex while placing it on the model. I also run a thin bead of hot glue around the whole matrix to seal it up and to keep it stable while processing. I have had some pretty good results with this method.
       
    14. nickate

      nickate Member Full Member

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      How much do you charge? Art. ($13) Classic (cheap) teeth 7-10($16), 2 clasps($36), horseshoe palate($90+ $16 for 3 add'l. teeth) no ID.?

      This is a $171 case with no duplicate and press packed in Luci 199.
      It will limp the patient along until the economy turns as long as the Dr. keeps it properly relined.

      Hands on is an honest 60-70 mins.
       
      Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
    15. nickate

      nickate Member Full Member

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      You charge like 300 bux right?
       
    16. kcdt

      kcdt Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Bingo.
       
    17. nickate

      nickate Member Full Member

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      ...

      A fellow Dental Lab Network poster PM'd me this response to my flipper comment. WHY ARE WE AFRAID TO GIVE A COST ON AN APPLIANCE?
      This individual is keeping the industry down IMO. I will NOT give them up.

      CHARGE A DOLLAR A MINUTE HANDS ON TIME and you should not go out of business.

      PM....
      ....."God love you-LOL if ever I charged 171 dollars for a one or two tooth(I QUOTED A 4 ANTERIOR ) flipper with clasps, I would loose an account-shot dead in the square-burned at the stake and ashes spread on main street. Processed in Lucitone 199!==I get 40$ and get complaints about being too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


      MY RESPONSE:
      So.... let me get this straight.... You are a highly skilled, accomplished technician doing a 60 minute job (without including pickup OR delivery time, insurance or depreciation on your vehicle) paying rent, utilities, insurance and all taxes on a $40 charge?!? GO WORK AT MCDONALDS and do all us other lab tech/ owners a favor. You are working for CHINA PAY.... Do you live in China?

      Dude. You HAVE to charge enough to not just break even.... YOU HAVE TO MAKE A PROFIT or you are just beating your meat on a daily basis.
       
    18. DentureDude
      Relaxed

      DentureDude trained monkey Full Member

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      im not going to discuss exact pricing on this site but i will say this.

      its really not that time consuming. if the lab is set up right. and you cant run around chasing your tail all day with mistakes and problems. get your technique down and the bugs worked out. this forum is here to help you with that. and dont forget, were all very lucky about that.

      think of it this way. whats the toughest single thing about making a flipper?.. identify one single thing. then figure out a way to make that one thing a bit easier, a bit more efficient. i can almost guarantee there is something more you could do in that department. then repeat that process with the next one thing... divide and conquer.

      i dont mind flippers at all. i think they are easy money. and yes i do make a profit.
       

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