ht emax

[AL1]

Is anyone pressing full posteriors out of HT. Do they gray out in the mouth? Has anyone pressed ht but cut back for dentin and left the occlusals in full press? to take the load. I have been pressing dentin in and baking enamel, but I have been hearing that the monolithic crown is stronger.

 

[cswalczakny]

the monolithic press would of course be stronger than a layered one (being rated for 400mpa vs about 100mpa) i have been told that HT will gray in posterior cases and that LT would be more optimal for that type of restoration. If you wanted to cut back and layer facially on a bicuspid leaving the occlusal as monolithic it would preserve the strength and give you an opportunity to characterize it a little better, however if you look at properly designed, stained, and glazed monolithic restorations using e.max they really do look great as-is without going through the cut back and layering. just my opinion.

 

[Al.]

I do some posteriors full contour in HT but usually only the darker shades.
Mostly I use LT.

LT does comes out way to high value in B1 and A1 and the bleach shades.
But for posteriors I keep all the occlusal surfaces in the core material for strength.

This case is going to be pressed in B1 and B1 LT sucks for full contour press.
It looks like a BL1 in the mouth.
Im only going to layer the facial of the bis.
They really missed the mark with LT then HT but buy passing MT.

 

[AL1]

So whats the final shade on those?
Also I have one I got in today D3, Can I get away using a C2 ingot so I dont have to buy a whole vile of D3, a shade I wont use much of or should I press in a light shade for oclussal and get some D2 porcelain and cut back for body?

 

[sixonice]

So whats the final shade on those?
Also I have one I got in today D3, Can I get away using a C2 ingot so I dont have to buy a whole vile of D3, a shade I wont use much of or should I press in a light shade for oclussal and get some D2 porcelain and cut back for body?

You can get the D2 LT ingot and easily get down to your D3. I would think using C2, you would struggle a bit trying to get down to D3. Get the D2 LT - you will use that one again I am sure!

 

[Al.]

Yeah I agree with Six Pack of Corona, C2 will prob be too dark.
D2 and C1 are both nice shades in LT. Press it full contour with D2 than stain the gin 1/2 to a D3.
Same with C1. Press a crown in C1 then stain the gin 1/2 to C2 when a C2 is called for.

The case I posted is B1.
I hate B1 Lt and Ht for full contour posteriors.

Its fine for layering but it looks like a peice of chaulk in the mouth.

For high end Drs I am going to try waxing the occlusal cusps slightly short and highlight the cusps with 1 or 2 1/10s of incisal blue from the impulse porc to see if I can knock down some of that brightness.

Im trying it on a 2nd molar tomorrow, its a B1 full contour crown.
Ill post the results or pics of the crown in the lab, I doubt Ill get pics in the mouth.

 

[AL1]

I am going to order some essence powders, which ones get used the most? Also when you press to full contour and shade the gingival, does the occlusal still come out light enough with some translucency?I have been baking my occlusals with no failures yet, but dont want to run into problems. Say you have an A3 molar what ingot would you use to get the right occlusal shade and shade down to an A3 gingival ?

 

[sixonice]

I am going to order some essence powders, which ones get used the most? Also when you press to full contour and shade the gingival, does the occlusal still come out light enough with some translucency?I have been baking my occlusals with no failures yet, but dont want to run into problems. Say you have an A3 molar what ingot would you use to get the right occlusal shade and shade down to an A3 gingival ?

The Essence powders are nice. You can use them for internal staining, external staining or mixing with dentin or enamel. Be careful though, can be intense! I like them best for specific external characterizations. The white is great for cusp tips on molars. The Essences are very personal to each ceramist seeing that they are actual colors. They also sell regular e.max shade pastes (which I would recommend you get first) for staining dentin shades and (2) incisal shade pastes as well.
For your A3 I would use an A2 shade. As I have mentioned in past posts, I am always a fan of starting with a slightly higher value then working my way down if need be (and its so easy with the shade pastes).

 

[Al.]

Six, are the essence powders the same as powder stains?
I have never ordered the kit.

 

[sixonice]

Six, are the essence powders the same as powder stains?
I have never ordered the kit.

Yep, they sure are. Slick little 5gm jars - if you order any of the colors once (are there are like 20+) you'll never need them again. A little goes a long way and they are versatile. I like the white, sunset, lemon, cappucino & mahagony. Mix them with stain & glaze liquid for external staining. The whole kit is expensive because there are so many colors, so I recommend "cherry-picking" 4 or 5 or 6 of the ones you will use and like the most.

 

[Al.]

Here you go AL1, press and stain LT B1 except for the facials of the Bi's.

 

[AL1]

Very nice.They look great. Now, if I had an A3 to do what LT ingot would I use to get proper occlusal color and just veneer buccal like you did on the bi`s.Or just a straight shading, without veneering.

 

[Al.]

Very nice.They look great. Now, if I had an A3 to do what LT ingot would I use to get proper occlusal color and just veneer buccal like you did on the bi`s.Or just a straight shading, without veneering.

Al, except for dark shades I usually use the shade prescribed, for posteriors.
They seem to come out light and need to be stained on the gin.
Ex a A2 pressed full contour looks more like an A1.

An A3 can come out dark so a A2 would be good.

For the high end Drs I wax the occlusal or all occluding surfaces full contour but the buccal ling and interprox I keep slightly undercontoured then I layer a ring of incisal around the core.

Usually there isnt enough room to layer without compromising strength to make much of a difference so on the case below I did my wash bake with incisal blue on tghe inciasl 1/3. Just a small amount. I fired it than added my ring of incisal around it.

This was a B1 and it really knocked down that brightness or that crappy glorified temp look that you see with cerec crowns Drs are putting in,and gave it trans with out greying it out.

 

[AL1]

Just had a strange problem,my foundation bake pulled away and had small cracks. Any s?

 

[Al.]

If it pulled away it was probably too heavy.

What do you mean buy cracks? Cracks as in cte cracks?

 

[AL1]

I think I solved the cracking and pulling problem. Porcelain was to wet when it went into furnace. I redid it and it came out fine. The cracks, I think were from to much shrinkage.
I did press in D2 like you recommended and shaded down alittle Looks pretty darn good. It was the biggest molar I have ever pressed.

 

[normanmilquetoast]

Normanmilquetoast

I just started doing emax and am having some problems. I just pressed two full contour b1's with the ht ingot. The reaction layer was very heavy, they had a lot of small nodules and they are opaque with the shade of about 010! Any suggestions?

Thanks.

P.S. I'm using a Ney Cermpress QEX, pressing at 970 (they run a little cool).

 

[sixonice]

I just started doing emax and am having some problems. I just pressed two full contour b1's with the ht ingot. The reaction layer was very heavy, they had a lot of small nodules and they are opaque with the shade of about 010! Any suggestions?

Thanks.

P.S. I'm using a Ney Cermpress QEX, pressing at 970 (they run a little cool).

Your pressing them too hot. Back your high temp down to 945C with a 9 minute press time and pull vacuum the entire program. Heavy reation layer indicates your ring is over temp. Those "little nodules" you see is probably excess reation layer (which does look bright white). Also be careful with using the HT's for full contour restorations. Unless they are small, you may want to go with LT ingots then staining them or doing a small cutback. HT ingots are very translucent which can run you into low-value issues. Save the HT's for veneers and inlay & onlay stuff. Lowering your high temp will give you much better reation layers.

 

[normanmilquetoast]

Normanmilquetoast

Thanks Six, you're much better than Ivoclar's tech support!

 

[Al.]

Thanks Six, you're much better than Ivoclar's tech support!

You need to call Ney tech support, not Ivoclar.