How awesome is Sirona?

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

On a scale of 1-10, How awesome is Sironas software and hardware including scanners and mills, I mean grinders.

 

[2thm8kr]

Stirring up the angry mob eh?

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Stirring up the angry mob eh?

Just want a thread to link up to whenever someone asks about sirona. And maybe even something to show doctors. Im hoping in the long run there are LOTS of votes..

 

[RileyS]

I can't vote as I haven't used 4.0 and up. But I hate the marketing and sales gimmicks, the never ending costs, being locked to materials, filling tank with ice so Burrs don't bend and break with wax/pmma, being treated like the problem by support, having crappy margins (both physically and financially) being kicked out of the system/program for not upgrading, and the cult-like followers.
I do believe results are probably better with new scanner and software, but that won't eliminate much of what I mentioned.
Results from using 3 shape and exocad with any other mill for last 2.5 yrs is light years better than the 3 yrs I was stuck using Sirona inlab, aka craplab.
There's more but I have work to do.

 

[CB93]

Sirona has some good stuff. We use it everyday with great results. The biggest drawback is that its a closed system.

 

[cheadlemick]

I can't vote as I haven't used 4.0 and up. But I hate the marketing and sales gimmicks, the never ending costs, being locked to materials, filling tank with ice so Burrs don't bend and break with wax/pmma, being treated like the problem by support, having crappy margins (both physically and financially) being kicked out of the system/program for not upgrading, and the cult-like followers.
I do believe results are probably better with new scanner and software, but that won't eliminate much of what I mentioned.
Results from using 3 shape and exocad with any other mill for last 2.5 yrs is light years better than the 3 yrs I was stuck using Sirona inlab, aka craplab.
There's more but I have work to do.

So you're not a fan then?

 

[RileyS]

So you're not a fan then?

Aye, sir

 

[grantoz]

on a scale from 1-10 id give it 1, between the eyes so crappy compared to exocad and the limitations on what you can mill.the incredible servicing fees have I left anything out?Oh yeh its almost 4 axis if you try and imagine for long enough.

 

[harmonylab]

I can't vote as I haven't used 4.0 and up. But I hate the marketing and sales gimmicks, the never ending costs, being locked to materials, filling tank with ice so Burrs don't bend and break with wax/pmma, being treated like the problem by support, having crappy margins (both physically and financially) being kicked out of the system/program for not upgrading, and the cult-like followers.
I do believe results are probably better with new scanner and software, but that won't eliminate much of what I mentioned.
Results from using 3 shape and exocad with any other mill for last 2.5 yrs is light years better than the 3 yrs I was stuck using Sirona inlab, aka craplab.
There's more but I have work to do.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

this is not a great way of showing.

Firstly, any small lab or small ecosystem can thrive very well with the Sirona system. Is it great? no, but will it pass? in most areas, yes. Also, from a non lab perspective, Sirona is a great company with great offerings to the dentists. Being a part of that, and signing on to the CEREC/inlab system is probably worth it for a small set up.

the X5 is ok, and the functions in 4.2 are good. Their ecosystem with Sirona Connect and things like that make it a very easy system to work with. There's a new mill coming out too to replace MCXL

Is it my favorite system? far from it, but also my requirements would not be met using this system. I know people who use Sirona even in the medium sized setting and they do very well.


Sirona as a company offers great support, i think it's a bit unfair to compare the MCXL to today's mills considering the MCXL is way old.

 

[CatamountRob]

It appears from the results that Sirona is very similar to Obama.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

I would imagine anyone who never utilized any system before but has owned and operated a Sirona system would not know exactly how bad it is.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Also, consider the price. If this entire system was $10k. Then I would have to say, what a great deal and maybe even praise it. But that is not the case. Some owners have paid as much that they could have had a Zahn system that outweighed Sirona in quality and production value by 1000X.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

this is not a great way of showing.

Firstly, any small lab or small ecosystem can thrive very well with the Sirona system. Is it great? no, but will it pass? in most areas, yes. Also, from a non lab perspective, Sirona is a great company with great offerings to the dentists. Being a part of that, and signing on to the CEREC/inlab system is probably worth it for a small set up.

the X5 is ok, and the functions in 4.2 are good. Their ecosystem with Sirona Connect and things like that make it a very easy system to work with. There's a new mill coming out too to replace MCXL

Is it my favorite system? far from it, but also my requirements would not be met using this system. I know people who use Sirona even in the medium sized setting and they do very well.


Sirona as a company offers great support, i think it's a bit unfair to compare the MCXL to today's mills considering the MCXL is way old.

The MCXL isn't old, you can buy a brand new one today. Maybe Sirona should step up their game and build a decent mill, if you want to call it that. Cause their mills, don't mill. They grind with diamond burs. Why oh WHY! I cant buy some milling burs for this unit, I don't know, but some coated carbides could solve a lot of issues.

The software is designed for amateurs, leaving so so much to be desired. The UI is pretty, but its a disguise, because behind it, there is nothing going on.
There is no manual stitching, so if inlab is just a little bit confused, you have to start all over again. Usually after it freezez and you CNTRL ALT DELETE to close it. The tooth library is lacking, even then the default full contour designs need a lot of work before you can send to the mill, I Mean grinder.

The scanner records about as much info as my smart phone, and scanning and stitching a large case takes FOREVER compared to todays scanners and without any manual stitching, inlab gets confused and freezez often.

For $10k, Sirona systems are a STEAL! But they don't cost $10k, They cost as much as a starter home in middle America. That's ridiculous.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Double post

 

[shane williams]

I think Lucy or LucyFer must have voted 3 times for 10/10!! Having used a real scanner for the past 3 years(3Shape) and trying to utilize the inlab connect, it was like me painting the Mona Lisa and hanging it up side by side at the Louvre! It's not user friendly, anatomy is a joke. Nobody who uses sirona and then tries a 3Shape can honestly say they would prefer to use sirona. Locked system, unless you pay 2 grand to export stl files, some of the most ridiculous margin marking software and don't even get me started on bridge design. I'm so glad we no longer have that system! I would come into my "digital dungeon" and it would just be staring at me!

 

[2thm8kr]

I think Lucy or LucyFer must have voted 3 times for 10/10!! Having used a real scanner for the past 3 years(3Shape) and trying to utilize the inlab connect, it was like me painting the Mona Lisa and hanging it up side by side at the Louvre! It's not user friendly, anatomy is a joke. Nobody who uses sirona and then tries a 3Shape can honestly say they would prefer to use sirona. Locked system, unless you pay 2 grand to export stl files, some of the most ridiculous margin marking software and don't even get me started on bridge design. I'm so glad we no longer have that system! I would come into my "digital dungeon" and it would just be staring at me!

I gave it a 10 just to stir the pot.

 

[shane williams]

I gave it a 10 just to stir the pot.

Nice work!

 

[eyeloveteeth]

The MCXL isn't old, you can buy a brand new one today. Maybe Sirona should step up their game and build a decent mill, if you want to call it that. Cause their mills, don't mill. They grind with diamond burs. Why oh WHY! I cant buy some milling burs for this unit, I don't know, but some coated carbides could solve a lot of issues.

The software is designed for amateurs, leaving so so much to be desired. The UI is pretty, but its a disguise, because behind it, there is nothing going on.
There is no manual stitching, so if inlab is just a little bit confused, you have to start all over again. Usually after it freezez and you CNTRL ALT DELETE to close it. The tooth library is lacking, even then the default full contour designs need a lot of work before you can send to the mill, I Mean grinder.

The scanner records about as much info as my smart phone, and scanning and stitching a large case takes FOREVER compared to todays scanners and without any manual stitching, inlab gets confused and freezez often.

For $10k, Sirona systems are a STEAL! But they don't cost $10k, They cost as much as a starter home in middle America. That's ridiculous.

lol "double post"

the MCXL is old as in it's been in the market for a very long time. Yes, you can still buy a new one, but as I said, if you were in the market for one, i wouldn't ...there's a new mill coming out.

But you've summed up exactly why this is great....for those amateurs who don't necessarily feel ok about using CAD/CAM software...this is great. Basically if you know what CTRL ALT DEL does, you're better than what these systems were designed for.

I've found that the biogeneric function and tooth matching algorithm is great and wish it could be fully emulated in 3Shape the same exact way... Also, the Lee Culp anatomical library for the inlab is really pretty. I've actually exported a bunch of designs in there and put it into the roland, and they were great.

With regards to stitching...yes it's antiquated, but it's not like our current gen scanners are THAT great for stitching either. And FYI the X5 does do a good job with this problem.


Would I use SIRONA in our lab? probably not, unless we suddenly had an abundant handful of Omnicam doctors, which we dont...we have about 7 omnicam and maybe 15-20 AC doctors.


speaking of Omnicam...the stuff it captures is nice!.... but i still prefer trios

 

[shane williams]

lol "double post"

the MCXL is old as in it's been in the market for a very long time. Yes, you can still buy a new one, but as I said, if you were in the market for one, i wouldn't ...there's a new mill coming out.

But you've summed up exactly why this is great....for those amateurs who don't necessarily feel ok about using CAD/CAM software...this is great. Basically if you know what CTRL ALT DEL does, you're better than what these systems were designed for.

I've found that the biogeneric function and tooth matching algorithm is great and wish it could be fully emulated in 3Shape the same exact way... Also, the Lee Culp anatomical library for the inlab is really pretty. I've actually exported a bunch of designs in there and put it into the roland, and they were great.

With regards to stitching...yes it's antiquated, but it's not like our current gen scanners are THAT great for stitching either. And FYI the X5 does do a good job with this problem.


Would I use SIRONA in our lab? probably not, unless we suddenly had an abundant handful of Omnicam doctors, which we dont...we have about 7 omnicam and maybe 15-20 AC doctors.


speaking of Omnicam...the stuff it captures is nice!.... but i still prefer trios

You think that someone learning CAD software could learn better with sirona than on 3Shape? I would have to disagree with that. Basic tooth morphology design is incredibly difficult in comparison with 3Shape. Just getting into the tools to use to design are harder than on 3Shape, and I've been doing CAD designing for over 7 years. I haven't seen the Lee Culp anatomy, so I can't comment on it. But the crap they supply is just that, crap.
I guess if it works for you then more power to you, but in the long run it's a closed system that can't compete in the ever changing market of tomorrow.